Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Luca Brasi (2nd nomination)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep‎. Luca Brasi keeps his head above water for now, but we might need to rewrite and/or move the article to focus on the notable aspects of his character, rather than an in-universe biography. – Joe (talk) 14:04, 26 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Luca Brasi

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A quick Google search and the sources already existing in the article does not give any sources that prove individual notability, and per WP:N, it is not worth a standalone article. If the character is not notable, I suggest a redirect and/or merge to List of The Godfather characters#Luca Brasi. Spinixster (chat!) 14:02, 19 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Fictional elements, Science fiction and fantasy, and Film. Spinixster (chat!) 14:02, 19 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, film study [1], CT Magazine [2], Time Magazine [3] DonaldD23 talk to me 16:07, 19 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I'll see if the sources are good:
- First source seems to have been written by students (see bottom of page), but either way, this talks about the character's death scene rather than the character himself.
- Second source also talks about the character's death scene.
- Third source isn't very good because it's a trivial fact in a list of trivial facts.
You will need sources that prove the character's individual notability, not something about a scene they're in or some trivia about the portrayal of the character. Spinixster (chat!) 08:49, 20 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment List of The Godfather characters seems to have a major NN character spinout problem. There are quite a few redlinked hatnotes from expired PRODs from 2021 which no-one has bothered to remove. My recommendation would be to blanket merge/redirect back all subquality TGF character articles there and let it grow organically, instead of worrying individual character notability. – sgeureka ^t•c 09:14, 20 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. (see below for GNG) If we think about this from the readers perspective, they're going to want to read about the iconic line, "Luca Brasi sleeps with the fishes" and learn what it means, how the relevent scenes played out, how they were made, what impact it's had beyond The Godfather, etc.

We Wikipedians have a hard miss here, not having any solid coverage beyond a bit of plot summary of "Luca Brasi sleeps with the fishes". I'm willing to seek out a better way to cover this subject, but flat merge into a character list probably buries the notability here. Perhaps a Death of Luca Brasi or even Luca Brasi sleeps with the fishes article for the notable sequences from The Godfather, with some background, and linking to a shorter character bio in the list would work. But I'm not sure AfD is the best place to make that complicated a decision. Beyond the movie character, there's even the matter of the differences between film and book to cover, as those have been analyzed as well.

Either way, the article needs an improvement to focus on notability. But when we consider the subject holistically, a fictional element that is analyzed in secondary sources, it's pretty clear this this meets WP:GNG.

Here's a Springer Nature book chapter[4] that dedicates several hundred words to the character and their death, as part of a discussion of cuisine. (Incidentally, this is a morbidly fascinating read).
This academic book [5] has hundreds of words of coverage of this character, relating The Godfather to the real world, comparing the authenticity of the book and the movie, etc.
This book has more analysis [6]
This book's commentary [7] provides secondary coverage of the character in "life" as well as their death, also examining how various film-making techniques were used.
Here's a bit of a shocker - a religious analysis of the notable scenes [8]

This represents a non-exhaustive search.

I'm willing to change my !vote if someone has a good way to capture the notability for our readers, but again, a flat merge into a character list is probably not going to do it here. —siro χ o 05:19, 24 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I think it's a good idea for an article about the scene. I checked the sources, and they seem to be okay for use, though I'm not sure about the title of the article, more consensus would be needed for that. Spinixster (chat!) 07:16, 24 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.