Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mohamed Bouazizi

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. per overwhelming consensus and WP:SNOW - there is agreement that this should be kept. With regards to the proposed move mid-discussion, the argument does not seem to be gaining traction, so I suggest a requested moves procedure to debate that facet, and make no claim either way to the current consensus on such a move. Shirik (Questions or Comments?) 18:09, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

Mohamed Bouazizi

Mohamed Bouazizi (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)

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Recentism. WP:BLP#1E. Damiens.rf 21:33, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

• Keep - no doubt. Aa42john (talk) 10:34, 19 January 2011 (UTC)
• Merge into 2010–2011 Tunisian protests. Technically not a BLP (read the article!), but there doesn't seem to be enough to say to justify a separate article. (Unlike, say, Death of Neda Agha-Soltan.) Robofish (talk) 22:18, 14 January 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose. Mohamed Bouazizi is not a living person, and is obviously not a low-profile individual. jonathan riley (talk) 23:19, 14 January 2011 (UTC)
• Merge per Robofish. Keep per the proliferation of articles saying he had a pivotal role, whatnot. Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 00:06, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

merge per the fellow who shot the pakistani governow recently. These pages are WP:ONEEVENT and serve no function as independent pages where all content can be mergesd into 1 page with redirect.s(Lihaas (talk) 01:13, 15 January 2011 (UTC));

• Oppose. One commentator has written "In due course, every city of consequence in Tunisia will have a street or square named after Mohamed Bouazizi, the unemployed fruit-seller whose humiliation at the hands of the authorities led to a revolution."[1] That exact prediction may or may not turn out to be true, but I think Bouazizi as the catalyst for the fall of a long-standing dictator has much greater significance than a guy who shot a provincial official in Pakistan. —Sesel (talk) 03:34, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

Oppose due to the belief that Wikipedia:ONEVENT does not apply here. To quote the guideline: "The general rule in many cases is to cover the event, not the person. However, as both the event and the individual's role grow larger, separate articles become justified. If the event is highly significant, and the individual's role within it is a large one, a separate article is generally appropriate. The assassins of major political leaders, such as Gavrilo Princip, fit into this category, as indicated by the large coverage of the event in reliable sources that devotes significant attention to the individual's role."

It seems that Mohamed Bouazizi has played a significant role in the downfall of a "major political leader", arguably a more significant role than Neda Agha-Soltan did in her event which did not have the same consequences. "Arabs everywhere identified with Mohamed Bouazizi" and he is described as "a symbol" and "a martyr" by sites such as the BBC. He brought down a president ("one of the region's longest-serving autocrats") and his actions are still having an impact on Tunisia and other countries (including Algeria, Jordan). He set himself on fire four weeks ago, hardly the best example of Wikipedia:RECENTISM, i.e. "writing or editing without a long-term, historical view."

There are numerous articles from a period of several weeks which discuss Mohamed Bouazizi's role and which refer to him in their headlines. Perhaps these can be used to expand the article and bring it closer to the standard set by Death of Neda Agha-Soltan. The National - "Bouazizi has become a Tunisian protest 'symbol'" and again "With the strike of a match, Mohamed Bouazizi did more than take his own life - he ignited the dormant anger of a generation", Toronto Star - "Suicide protest helped topple Tunisian regime", International Business Times - "The Story of Mohamed Bouazizi, the man who toppled Tunisia", The Guardian - "How a man setting fire to himself sparked an uprising in Tunisia".

Neda Agha-Soltan did none of that. --candle•wicke 04:27, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

Hello, I've just signed on only for the sake of commenting on this, so please forgive me if I don't format this correctly (and kindly advise me). I was surprised to see that this entry is being considered for deletion. Bouazizi's name came up twice in this BBC article so my first move was to look him up in Wikipedia. This man did not just commit suicide in private, this was a public act of protest against police harassment and a government, on a par with the Buddhist monk who self-immolated in Vietnam . This triggered nation-wide protests which four weeks later led to the fall of a government that had held power for 23 years. This is no small thing so I believe this gentleman deserves a separate entry. Sunny112358 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sunny11235813 (talk • contribs) 06:30, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

• Oppose. Deleting the entry about a person who has contributed as an important catalyst to the events currently happening in Tunisia would be a subjective minimization of his role in the current revolution. By this standard, the Wikipedia article on another self-immolating protester, Vietnam's Thích Quảng Đức, should be merged with the articles concerning the persecution of Buddhists by South Vietnam's Ngô Đình Diệm administration. As someone else stated above, Bouazizi is the catalyst for the fall of a long-standing dictatorship and this will have great significance in the future for the entire Arab world, and not solely Tunisia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.255.34.25 (talk) 06:54, 15 January 2011 (UTC)
• Comment. Everyone please stop saying "oppose" in these AfDs; it's confusing. Say either "keep" or "delete". Erpert ^{Who is this guy? | Wanna talk about it?} 07:52, 15 January 2011 (UTC)
• keep This person literary changed history. If you are watching al-Jazeera now (the most widely watched Arab TV channel), you would know what I mean. His name is on every tongue in the Arab World. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Taleb3elm (talk • contribs) 07:56, 15 January 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose. This is a significant individual by virtue of his actions and their consequences and also one who's anonymity would benefit only repressive elements in the region and the world generally.Paddy.carroll (talk) 08:06, 15 January 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose. You must be kidding. If there was such a thing as speedy deletion of requests for deletion, I think it would apply here. This will become an important article about an individual who made history. Joriki (talk) 08:35, 15 January 2011 (UTC)
• Keep he played a significant role in a significant event. KeptSouth (talk) 08:51, 15 January 2011 (UTC)
• Keep This man's actions have played a huge part in shaping a country. He is more worthy than a huge percentage of people who have articles here. Wikipedia is supposed to be a world-wide resource and on that scale he is very important, even if Americans think pages on Star trek are more important. Maybe the article needs improvement, but that is a horrible reason for deleting or merging. As we move more than a few weeks before the world had heard of him, obviously the page will improve. Nmpls (talk) 09:26, 15 January 2011 (UTC)
• Keep - notable, see http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12198039 - mentioned by name in a major news source 129.11.77.198 (talk) 09:49, 15 January 2011 (UTC)
• keep- indeed recent, but on the other hand, this guy's suicide is universally acknowledged to have literally started a revolution. He merits an encyclopedia article without a doubt. I started the article, but only after the revolt was successful and Ben Ali was toppled, making the chain of events started by Bouazizi historically significant. jackbrown (talk) 13:48, 15 January 2011 (UTC)
• Keep - He is Notable. Kaaveh (talk) 14:09, 15 January 2011 (UTC)
• Keep - I specifically searched for Mohamed Bouazizi in order to find out more about him as I'm sure many others have done, his notability is undeniable. Furthermore, search for his name and you get 220,000 results on Google, he deserves an entry is his own right. His death may have triggered the protests in Tunisia but it was a separate event entirely and deserves to be treated as one. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.221.109.146 (talk) 18:52, 15 January 2011 (UTC)
• Keep - He is notable, his suicide triggered the Jasmine Revolution. Look also at the number of media organizations mentioning him and detailing his story. He can be also seen as the symbol of frustration of many Arab youth. In addition, it is most likely that many streets and other public places will be named after him as mentioned above. Bestofmed™⟨msg↵⟩ 17:08, 15 January 2011 (UTC)
• Keep - Based simply on the lack of arguments for deletion. --Halfhaggis (talk) 20:46, 15 January 2011 (UTC)
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Africa-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 15:39, 15 January 2011 (UTC)
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Businesspeople-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 15:40, 15 January 2011 (UTC)
• Speedy Keep The nomination makes no sense and the subject's notability is significant. Regent of the Seatopians (talk) 22:50, 15 January 2011 (UTC)
• Keep - This death has clearly been highly significant to those who've struggled against that government. Whether he'll be seen to be as notable as Thích Quảng Đức remains to be clarified; for the moment this article remains a logical, timely point of reference for a potentially large audience. Twang (talk) 23:22, 15 January 2011 (UTC)
• Keep —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.21.8.150 (talk) 01:43, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
• Speedy Keep - You would only have to create the article again as a generation asks 'who is this Mohamed Bouazizi who triggered a revolution?'. Like many I came here to learn more about him, his family and background.
• Keep - True, this person is notable for a single event. But this single event is a really big deal. Bouazizi's only 'crime' is not being an American, and thus less access to information about him is available (compare for example to Jared Lee Loughner). --Fjmustak (talk) 09:19, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
• Keep, as Neda Soltani, this is a key event within a political process (a revolution). Yug (talk) 14:36, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
• I propose to close this discussion and remove the notice as per WP:SNOW. (Note that this is different from WP:SK, which I think doesn't apply.) There's hasn't been a single comment favouring deletion, but dozens for keep (all except one for merge); there's obviously a strong consensus; none of the keep arguments have been countered; no delete arguments have been brought forward, so I don't see a snowball's chance in hell of the deletion proposal being accepted. We should take into account that this article is probably getting large numbers of views, and the first thing people see is a large notice saying the article is being considered for deletion, and a lot of them are probably going "WTF?!"; they're getting a wrong impression since in fact there's a strong consensus against deletion. Joriki (talk) 12:32, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

  For a further argument for closing this ASAP, take a look at the talk page, where people are worried/incredulous about the deletion notice. Joriki (talk) 07:23, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

[2] although thats not a reason to keep.Lihaas (talk) 01:13, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

• Keep made the frontpage of CNN website on Sunday Jan 16 "How a fruit seller caused revolution in Tunisia". Also present on numerous newspapers all over the world. There is absolutely no doubt that many streets will be named after him. Moez ^talk 15:07, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

Indeed there is even a picture going around that the airport was renamed after him (although it could be photoshopped so I will wait to see the picture in a news article or someone can verify if the image is real before we add this to the wikipedia article).Calaka (talk) 17:46, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

I have seen the picture, it is clearly a photoshop :) Moreover, it is materially impossible to change the airport name while the rumbles of the revolution have not settled Moez ^talk 20:04, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

Ah thanks for the info! I was a bit unsure about it hehe. Would be interesting to see what they do later down the track.Calaka (talk) 03:59, 17 January 2011 (UTC)A

• Move (merge, if the article is ever created) to Self-immolation of Mohamed Bouazizi, per Death of Neda Agha-Soltan.VR _talk 15:08, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
• Keep; how is this not notable? This person, indeed, is notable for a single event, but as are Jared Lee Loughner and Soghomon Tehlirian, and their articles are not consolidated into their respective events' articles. Bouazizi was instrumental in the fall of the ben Ali regime. Quærens^{talk/contributions} 17:15, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
• Keep for the same reasons as I would keep the articles on Thích_Quảng_Đức and Death_of_Neda_Agha-Soltan, if either of them were proposed for deletion. --Leigh (talk) 20:17, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
• Keep and close the friggin' discussion already, I am so sick of every WP article about a current event being tagged with a spurious deletion notice. TiC (talk) 21:29, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
• Keep, but rename to "Death of Mohamed Bouazizi".  Cs32en Talk to me  00:21, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

I'd argue that Bouazizi, due to his lower-class background, motivation and legacy needing some explanation, requires an article separate from his act. Quærens^{talk/contributions} 11:00, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

seems like a perfect accomodagtion to move the page as reccomended.(Lihaas (talk) 01:58, 17 January 2011 (UTC)).

• Keep I feel like we have the same AFD discussions over and over.--Banana (talk) 08:55, 17 January 2011 (UTC)
• Keep There are lots of other people known only for that one (unfortunate) action and this one certainly notable. See Category:Self-immolations. CarolMooreDC (talk) 18:21, 17 January 2011 (UTC)
• Move, probably to Death of Mohamed Bouazizi. I do think it's a close call, but if it's his death that is being used as a rallying cry in the Tunisian protests, and he was not previously notable, it seems to me that the proper subject of the article is his death. I struggle with this a little, because I have supported a separate article for Jared Loughner. I do think there is a difference, but not a huge one -- just enough to produce a different result, it seems. Neutron (talk) 21:48, 17 January 2011 (UTC)
• Snow keep ^walk victor falk ^talk 03:09, 18 January 2011 (UTC)
• Persuasive argument to keep on the basis that the subject played a critical role in a particular event of geopolitical importance; the Gavrilo Princip example is persuasive. Johnleemk | Talk 07:13, 18 January 2011 (UTC)
• Keep Of course we should keepm it. He is every bit as important to the events as Jan Palach was to the Prague Spring. Ringbark (talk) 15:32, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

• Or Alice Herz, at age 82. A bit strange she is so unknown compared to Norman Morrison. ^walk victor falk ^talk 16:01, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

• Keep I found the article provided useful background information not available in the "protests" article, although it needs professional editing. Dtaw2001 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 16:52, 18 January 2011 (UTC).
• Keep The article is well-referenced and extremely notable.--Obsidi♠n^Soul 03:37, 19 January 2011 (UTC)
• Keep per User:candlewicke. Really, these AfD noms on every page about something that has happened recently does damage to Wikipedia's reputation. The nom should have waited a couple of weeks for reliable info before nominating this article for merging. Heroeswithmetaphors (talk) 16:23, 19 January 2011 (UTC)
• Strongest Possible Keep, but move to Death of Mohamed Bouazizi, based on past precedent. Let us be perfectly clear, BLP does not apply, as the man is most sincerely dead. Such "Death of NN" articles have been kept in the past, when the death of person involved has historical impact. This has been true even if, or in some cases because, the person was non-notable during life. There is a category for "Death of NN" articles, Category:Deaths by person, and such have even gotten top billing as FAs or GAs. There is no question that his death has set off the revolution in Tunisa, see Financial Times. In this particular case, these is no shadow of a doubt that this one man's death has resonated throughout the Arab world, see two stories on PBS. The act of self-immolation has already spread through North Africa, see CNN. Bearian (talk) 16:44, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.