Talk:Mahsa Amini protests

Page title.

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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I think that we should change the title of the page, something like 'September 2022 Iranian Protests'. "Mahsa Amini" protests just sound weird, her death wasn't the only reason the protests started anyway, it was also mandatory hijab since 1979. Anyway, I don't know how to change the title. So, anyone? AradTheSimp (talk) 23:39, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

But her death sparked this newest round of protests, no? Cheers. 98.155.8.5 (talk) 00:09, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

Many sources are calling them "The Mahsa Amini Protests". We're just going by referenced and verifiable information.-- Ideophagous (talk) 07:43, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

These aren't the only current protests in Iran. We need an unambiguous name for these, which September 2022 doesn't do. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 09:41, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

I would suggest it be changed to something like “2022 Iranian unrest” and I agree with you that Mahsa Amini’s death isn’t the only thing they’re uprising against. Thotianaa (talk) 02:02, 24 September 2022 (UTC)

As already mentioned, a lot of news sources are calling the recent events "Mahsa Amini Protests", so the title seems appropriate. Just Google that title between quotes (to get an exact match) and you'll see how many results you get. If more reliable literary sources on the event are written in the future, and they agree to use a different name to the current protests, the title can be change accordingly.-- Ideophagous (talk) 10:21, 24 September 2022 (UTC)

Requested move 24 September 2022

I think Mahsa Amini protests should be moved to September 2022 Iranian protests. It seems better because the protests werent just caused caused by the death of Mahsa Amini. HiltonCalifornia (talk) 22:17, 24 September 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose. But her death was the spark. Almost all reporting starts with tying the protests to her death. 331dot (talk) 22:25, 24 September 2022 (UTC)
• Comment. This is probably the 3rd or 4th time someone requests this. First, what you suggested was the original title of the article actually, and it was moved to the current title. Second, if you check most sources, they're using "Mahsa Amini protests" to distinguish them from other protests this year and earlier. You only need to do a Google search for an exact match with "September 2022 Iranian protests" and "Mahsa Amini Protests" and compare how many results you get. We can only go by what the sources say.-- Ideophagous (talk) 23:33, 24 September 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose the proposed title change. Agree with Ideophagous about this, that we need to go by what reliable sources are saying. Cheers! 98.155.8.5 (talk) 00:40, 25 September 2022 (UTC)
• Mildly oppose, for now. both titles comply with WP:ARTICLETITLE. WP:COMMONNAME is hard to apply here, since we don't have historical records yet and most sources are just calling them as something like "the current protests, which (are about/were triggered by) the death of a woman in custody who was detained for breaking hijab laws", but "the Mahaa Amini protests" seems like a good shortening of this. Rolf H Nelson (talk) 01:10, 25 September 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose See Aljazeera for example. 4nn1l2 (talk) 08:45, 30 September 2022 (UTC)

Requested move 27 September 2022

Mahsa Amini protests → Mahsa Amini death protests – The tile is kind of misleading that the protests are being led by the deceased, while it rather should be the "Protest against death of Mahsa Animi". BoyHayHay (talk) 04:39, 27 September 2022 (UTC) BoyHayHay (talk) 04:39, 27 September 2022 (UTC)

Moved this here, because of related ongoing discussions. Cheers! 98.155.8.5 (talk) 05:09, 27 September 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

List of named casualties

Is a list of casualties with their names really necessary? Almost every one of them is not notable. I’m pretty sure this is even against WP policies like WP:BLP. I know that mzny projects have a general consensus not to include such lists on articles detailing events with fatalities. Tvx1 13:26, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

I don't know if this is against policy or not, but it seems that if the number of those killed becomes great enough, that it would merit its own article: "List of those killed during the Mahsa Amini protests" or something like that. Cheers. 98.155.8.5 (talk) 19:26, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

So, turns out this has been done before: List of victims of November 2019 protests in Iran

Cheers! 98.155.8.5 (talk) 08:08, 27 September 2022 (UTC)

Still don't see the point of listing a bunch of non-notable people. Moreover, the quantity of fatalities has nowhere near reached the extent of the 2019 protests. Tvx1 09:59, 30 September 2022 (UTC)

No benefit to the reader in listing non-notable victims. List removed as there is no consensus to include. WWGB (talk) 13:48, 30 September 2022 (UTC)

changing the day-by-day format to a overview format

These protests have been happening for 11 days. adding information for each day of protests is clogging up space. I propose we change this to a few paragraphs of information which will be added onto for however long these protests last. Manumaker08 (talk) 17:45, 27 September 2022 (UTC)

Yep, that was gonna happen eventually. I think dividing the sub-sections by themes would be best. -- Ideophagous (talk) 18:16, 27 September 2022 (UTC)

For a change this big there should be more consensus. anyone else agree with the change? Manumaker08 (talk) 14:50, 28 September 2022 (UTC)

I think this is an inevitable part of the evolution of an article about a protest movement, but it's very difficult to write the overview while we're still in the middle of the events. Levivich (talk) 02:00, 5 October 2022 (UTC)

I suggest splitting the protest into months once it reaches the stage of actually needing to be split up. Take the Ukrainian counteroffensive page for example which has the months split up instead of just days. Raymond Kestis (talk) 05:40, 5 October 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 29 September 2022 (2)

Please add this to the article:

Timeline

please add this to the article:

Main article: Iran's 2022 protests timeline

Caravaneternity (talk) 08:56, 29 September 2022 (UTC)

•  Not done. There doesn't seem any need to split out the timeline section at present, and certainly a consensus should form here for that before carrying it out. Also, if you copy content within Wikipedia, you need to follow the attribution rules as detailed at WP:COPYWITHIN. I've redirected the new page back here for now.  — Amakuru (talk) 09:41, 29 September 2022 (UTC)

  Dear @Amakuru the protests are ongoing .. for example protestors in cities like Rasht, Ghom, Sanandaj and Mashhad are protesting right now .. so we need to have split out the timeline of protests and let it be updated .. please bring back Iran's 2022 protests timeline article and if you like change it's name to Mahsa Amini protest timeline ..Thanks Caravaneternity (talk) 19:22, 29 September 2022 (UTC)

  A better suggestion would be to actually wait until the protests end (if ever) to create the timeline, as it would be more time-efficient and easier to get sources in order to create the timeline in the first place. Raymond Kestis (talk) 05:43, 5 October 2022 (UTC)

move this article to Iran's 2022 Protests

please move this article to the Iran's 2022 Protests Caravaneternity (talk) 08:59, 29 September 2022 (UTC)

@Caravaneternity: That title doesn't really match the usual Wikipedia format, and is also ambiguous because there were protests earlier in the year too. The article was originally at September 2022 Iranian protests but it was moved to this title last week, and I personally think it's more descriptive and recognisable. If you really want to pursue a move, then WP:RM is the place to go. Cheers  — Amakuru (talk) 09:47, 29 September 2022 (UTC)

I changed the short description (shortdesc) to "Current (since September 2022) Iranian protests". One ongoing problem is that external search engines like Google are pointing "Iran protests" to the 2021-2 protest page, when what most current searchers are looking for is these Mahsa Amini protests. We'll see if the new shortdesc helps. Rolf H Nelson (talk) 23:23, 2 October 2022 (UTC)

The problem with the current title is that the protests are no longer just about Mahsa Amini, but the people of Iran are demanding basic human rights and a fundamental change in the government. Furthermore the protests have been further sparked by new victims (in addition to Mahsa Amini) such as Nika Shakarami and a wave of arrests of political activists such as Majid Tavakoli, Hossein Ronaghi, Niloofar Hamedi, Jadi Mirmirani, etc. So as the events unfold, the current title becomes more inadequate. BlueBlack (talk) 01:56, 6 October 2022 (UTC)

Thank you! BlueBlack (talk) 13:44, 6 October 2022 (UTC)

I would support a move back to September 2022 Iranian protests (or similar wording) per the reasons set out by BlueBlack above. QueenofBithynia (talk) 17:03, 6 October 2022 (UTC)

This page, when it was created, was called September 2022 Iranian protests. It was moved without discussion to Mahsa Amini protests on 22 September. Since then, a number of editors have objected to the new title. I have moved the page back to it's original title; our global consensus is that when someone makes a bold page move and it's reverted, we have a WP:RM to decide the page title. Anyone who thinks this page should be changed from its original title should open up an WP:RM. Levivich (talk) 17:33, 6 October 2022 (UTC)

Really appreciate the consideration. BlueBlack (talk) 19:25, 6 October 2022 (UTC)

Don't remove official tweets

Exiled leaders and activists

• Reza Pahlavi, former Crown Prince of Iran, met a delegation of the European Parliament. On Twitter, he called for:

1. "Direct & unequivocal support for #IranProtests

1. European tech companies to offer #Internet & VPN support

1. European Magnitsky sanctions on government officials

1. Recall EU Ambassadors from Iran, protesting the government's increasing crackdown and in solidarity with the people".

• Maryam Rajavi wrote on her official social media, "I salute the martyrs of the nationwide #Iranprotests who laid down their lives for freedom. They symbolize their people's will to overthrow the mullahs and establish democracy in Iran. I urge the youth to rise up to secure the release of those arrested & support their families."

2601:C4:C300:A210:74EA:E6E0:DB5A:1542 (talk) 13:03, 29 September 2022 (UTC)

Without secondary sources, they are WP:UNDUE. See also: WP:BLPSPS. Elizium23 (talk) 14:08, 29 September 2022 (UTC)

Here is a secondary source for Reza Pahlavi commenting on the protests. He’s an important figure in the Exile community, it’s not undue to include his reaction. Jogarz1921 (talk) 21:51, 30 September 2022 (UTC)

@Jogarz1921: Per WP:BRD feel free to add material sourced to the Hindustan Times, then, if desired. Rolf H Nelson (talk) 23:40, 2 October 2022 (UTC)

That's the thing though, I can't because the article is protected. Jogarz1921 (talk) 01:29, 4 October 2022 (UTC)

@Jogarz1921: OK I added something based on the Hindustan Times. For future reference you can also make edit requests using the WP:ER format. Rolf H Nelson (talk) 04:51, 6 October 2022 (UTC)

Reza Pahlavi, and Maryam Rajavi are notable historical individuals. You don't have to allow Fourth Estate gatekeepers at BBC (BBC controversies) to make the call on whether or not to give them a voice.

Reza Pahlavi, and Maryam Rajavi have verified official account on the Twitter platform. --2601:C4:C300:A210:74EA:E6E0:DB5A:1542 (talk) 16:13, 29 September 2022 (UTC)

Italy politician Meloni's reaction

• Italy: Italian lawmaker Giorgia Meloni wrote, "Mahsa died from being beaten after she was arrested by the Iranian religious police, just because a lock of hair came out of her veil." She also expressed support for the Iranian revolt against the Islamist regime.

2601:C4:C300:A210:74EA:E6E0:DB5A:1542 (talk) 13:06, 29 September 2022 (UTC)

To apply WP:BLPSPS and WP:BLPCRIME, among others: these are contentious claims about a third party. These are claims about an event not directly related to Meloni. Amini is recently-deceased and so WP:BDP applies. If no WP:SECONDARY sources cover Meloni's Tweet then it is WP:UNDUE for inclusion, just like the above discussion and the other Tweets we've removed. Elizium23 (talk) 16:25, 29 September 2022 (UTC)

References

protests on 29 September

Hello, please update the timeline with new protests news:

Protests continued in different cities in Iran. Tehran, Sanandaj, Rasht, Ghom, Bojnord and many other cities were the places people protests and chanted against injustice and brutality of officials.[1] The Guardian, [2]DW, [3]VOA News. H2KL (talk) 08:22, 30 September 2022 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Mahsa Amini protests in Stuttgart Germany.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 09:52, 2 October 2022 (UTC)

Nika Shakarami/Shahkarami: body stolen and buried by authorities after her killing following protests

Probably notable for the article here, if anybody with edit privileges would like to make a mention.

Iran: Teen protester Nika Shakarami's body stolen, sources say (BBC)
"Iranian security forces stole the body of a 16-year-old protester, and buried her secretly in a village, sources close to the family told BBC Persian. The family had planned to bury Nika Shakarami on Monday, but her body was snatched and buried in a village about 40km (25 miles) away, the sources said. Nika went missing for 10 days after protesting in Tehran on 20 September ... Nika's family finally found her body in a morgue at a detention centre in the capital. 'When we went to identify her, they didn't allow us to see her body, only her face for a few seconds,' said Atash Shakarami, Nika's aunt. Nika's family transferred her body to her father's hometown of Khorramabad in the west of the country on Sunday - on what would have been her 17th birthday. Under duress the family agreed not to hold a funeral but security forces 'stole' Nika's body from Khorramabad and buried it in the village of Veysian, one source said ... Hadis' sisters say she was shot in the head and neck with live ammunition and also birdshot fired from a shotgun. Two pictures of her body show birdshot wounds. 'They wouldn't return the body for two days, asking her father to say she had died of a heart attack out of fear,' two sources close to the family told BBC Persian. In a final video message Hadis sent to her friends, which BBC Persian obtained, she says: 'I hope in a few years when I look back, I will be happy that everything has changed for the better.' She was shot dead almost an hour after recording this message, her family said."

Iranian schoolgirls take up battle cry as protests continue (The Guardian)
"Nika Shahkarami, who lived in Tehran and would have turned 17 on Sunday, vanished in September. Her family found her body in a detention centre’s morgue 10 days later, BBC Persian reported."

Iranian schoolgirls give clerical leaders the finger as they join uprising against the regime (The Telegraph)
"Footage has emerged of a group of schoolchildren in the city of Karaj near Tehran chasing an education official off the premises as they hurled empty water bottles at him and chanted 'shame on you'. It came as the BBC reported that Iranian security forces secretly buried the body of a 16-year-old protester far from her village after she disappeared for ten days. In a last message to her friends, Nika Shakarami had said she was being pursued by security forces. Her relatives told the BBC that when they went to identify Nika's body they were only allowed to briefly see her face, raising suspicions that she may have been killed by the authorities. Security forces then 'stole' the body and buried it in a faraway village, relatives said."

Iran's president calls for national unity as anti-government protests spread (Australia Broadcasting Corp)
"The recent death of a 17-year-old girl in Tehran, however, has unleashed an outpouring of anger on Iranian social media. Nika Shahkarami, who lived in the capital with her mother, vanished one night last month during the protests in Tehran, her uncle Kianoush Shakarami told the semiofficial Tasnim news agency. She was missing for a week before her lifeless body was found in a Tehran street and was returned to her family, Tasnim reported, adding relatives had not received official word on how she died. Foreign-based Iranian activists allege she died in police custody, with hundreds circulating her photo online and using her name as a hashtag for the protest movement. The prosecutor in the western Lorestan province, Dariush Shahoonvand, denied any wrongdoing by authorities and said she was buried in her village on Monday."

We can only be in awe of young women such as Nika Shakarami (The Independent)
"With family ties to Iran's southwestern city of Khorramabad, she was just shy of 17 years old when she took part in a 20 September protest in Tehran sparked by the death of 22-year-old Mahsa Amini, the young woman who was killed after being arrested by the morality police. Shakarami went missing. Her family looked for her for days, searching for clues at police stations and hospitals. They posted messages on social media. But like Amini, Shakarami never made it home alive. Regime officials delivered her badly damaged body, with stitches and signs of physical assault, on 29 September. Authorities provided no explanation and not a single measure of accountability for the death of the young woman. Adding flagrant insult to injury, regime officials grabbed her body from the mortuary and buried her against the family's wishes in a village, in an apparent attempt to avoid a politically charged funeral march. The family and her supporters tried to hold one anyway, and were met with regime gunmen firing birdshot ... Shakarami's grieving mother can be seen on 3 October in viral media, defiantly speaking out for her dead daughter. 'Today was your birthday, my dear!' she says through unimaginable pain, her headscarf off. 'Today I say congratulations on your martyrdom!' "

Thanks everyone. Cheers. 98.155.8.5 (talk) 23:16, 4 October 2022 (UTC)

 Done, thanks. Levivich (talk) 01:59, 5 October 2022 (UTC)

Thank you!! : )  98.155.8.5 (talk) 04:50, 5 October 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 5 October 2022

it is requested to remove "@" from Emmanuel Macron. BoyHayHay (talk) 06:41, 5 October 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: A tweet was being quoted. --Firestar464 (talk) 02:39, 6 October 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 5 October 2022 (2)

The way you are writing the timeline seems to me very much biased in favour of the Iranian Government: All quotes are from Iranian government sources, and not much from the people. These are protests that are involving hundreds of thousands of people, especially the youngest generations. There are no voices of them in the timeline. Teoporta (talk) 07:39, 5 October 2022 (UTC)

But there is no centralized leadership/representative of the people, so I don't see how Wikipedia could possibly quote them if they aren't unified RisingTzar (talk) 09:20, 5 October 2022 (UTC)

I understand that, being not centralized, it is hard or even pointless to quote someone. On the other hand, ALL of the protesters share the same message, which should be reported in here somehow, I think.

Example: Khamenei says that the protests are being organized by USA or some other foreign power... well... as it is obviously something he is making up just to deny any wrongdoing of his government, and the despair of Iranian people, THAT should be mentioned. "Although he said something, according to all other observers, facts are something else."

Also, the mention of the worldwide protests that took place on October 1st doesn't show the whole picture... protests occurred in more than 150 cities worldwide... from Japan to Europe to America...

I hope I made my point :) have a good day Teoporta (talk) 14:44, 5 October 2022 (UTC)

The act of him saying something is notable, and is thus quoted. I think it's pretty clear already what the protesters are standing for. Also, I will decline your request as it isn't clear what changes you want to make. Please state your changes in an X to Y format. Firestar464 (talk) 02:37, 6 October 2022 (UTC)

Trial

Hajipour faces trial over protest song Baraye. – Sca (talk) 13:29, 5 October 2022 (UTC)

Western interference

Wikipedia is not a place to right great wrongs.

Most of what is on here looks like Western propaganda supporting this when there is clear CCTV footage if Mahsa Amini dying of a heart attack. I don't understand why Wikipedia is now full of pro-Western propaganda. Please fix this article somehow please. Muhafiz-e-Pakistan (talk) 14:32, 5 October 2022 (UTC) Isn't it ironic that you're so vehemently anti-western (also seen here [4] [5] [6]), yet here you are, writing in English in a website founded in the United States of America? Wikipedia is a not a WP:SOAPBOX where you can showcase your anti-Western sentiments. Also, there's nothing wrong with the neutrality of this article (at least overall), I would highly advise you to read WP:POV very carefully. --HistoryofIran (talk) 23:00, 5 October 2022 (UTC) This is a pretty bad argument - people can criticise Western bias on a website even if it was founded in the US or uses the English language. We are supposed to be a global encyclopedia. However, unless there is good evidence to suggest this is happening on this page rather than a gut feeling, we can't do anything about it. As has been discussed ad nauseam in discussions of this type (and mentioned above), we follow what reliable sources say and are not here to promote a particular point of view in order to right great wrongs as one sees them. "Please fix this article somehow please" - please be more specific than this... -- QueenofBithynia (talk) 20:05, 6 October 2022 (UTC) The footage was mentioned in the original article, and so was further evidence indicating she may have been brutally beaten, especially on the head, resulting in a fractured skull. While the tone of the article can certainly be improved, it does bring up all relevant information from multiple perspectives as per WP:POV. Is there some specific piece of information or prominent opposing point of view you find missing? -- Ideophagous (talk) 20:13, 6 October 2022 (UTC) Upon checking the Mahsa Amini article again, it seems that an explicit mention of the footage released by the Iranian authorities was removed. But the version of the events by the authorities is definitely mentioned regardless.--Ideophagous (talk) 20:20, 6 October 2022 (UTC)

Category:Totalitarianism

Please add Category:Totalitarianism . 2601:C4:C300:A210:A9E9:CBCD:1587:6338 (talk) 15:47, 5 October 2022 (UTC)

FARAJA or Faraja?

We only write all letters in capital when the word is an English acronym; for example: IAEA, which is the abbreviated form of International Atomic Energy Agency. But FARAJA isn't an English language acronym. It is Persian: (فراجا) (فرماندهی انتظامی جمهوری اسلامی). So I think Faraja is correct. Aminabzz (talk) 18:40, 5 October 2022 (UTC)

Section move proposal

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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I propose that the Timeline section Timline be moved to Timeline of the Mahsa Amini protests. This section is more related to the topic of Timeline of the Mahsa Amini protests, specifically the day-to-day events. Geopony (talk) 23:02, 5 October 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Public hair cutting to protest Islamic totalitarianism

A global trend has started with celebrities and politicians protesting the rule of ayatollahs in Iran where participants cut their hair publicly. It's spreading like a wildfire.

• Juliette Binoche is seen her on official social media Juliette Binoche (@juliettebinoche)
• France: Oscar winners cut off their hair for Iran protesters https://apnews.com/article/iran-middle-east-marion-cotillard-ecac370cd2f7a3d0bf170fd07a977cbc

A new section is needed to discuss this global trend. 2601:C4:C300:A210:806F:DA8:2522:E615 (talk) 01:20, 6 October 2022 (UTC)

Already mentioned in timeline section. Firestar464 (talk) 02:48, 6 October 2022 (UTC)

@Firestar464: Not sure why the above section move proposal to shift content over to a new "timeline" article was closed. I see that the new page Timeline of the Mahsa Amini protests is tagged for speedy deletion. What would be the appropriate way to start splitting off content? This has been mentioned before (above!), as a possible thing that would be helpful. Cheers! 98.155.8.5 (talk) 03:17, 6 October 2022 (UTC)

Requested move 6 October 2022

September 2022 Iranian protests → Mahsa Amini protests – The protests are extending well into October and will likely continue for months to come. IDK how this was considered a "bold move without consensus", it's a commonsense move. Dunutubble (talk) (Contributions) 18:11, 6 October 2022 (UTC)

• The term "Mahsa Amini Protests" is the one most media outlets are using. It's the recent move back by @Levivich: that I find questionable. Just because some editors are complaining does not mean we should oblige.-- Ideophagous (talk) 19:19, 6 October 2022 (UTC)
  • How do you know most media outlets are using "Mahsa Amini protests"? Here are some articles that do not use that phrase: BBC, CNN, Guardian, NPR, LATimes, Al Jazeera, WSJ. Other articles do use "Mahsa Amini protests", for example CBC, USA Today, WaPo, DW, Times of Israel. How do we know which is used by most? Levivich (talk) 20:54, 6 October 2022 (UTC)

    @Levivich: A simple Googling using exact words (with double quotations):

    • "mahsa amini protests": 380.000 results
    • "2022 iranian protests": 1820 results
    • "September 2022 Iranian protests": 719 results

    Of course, these search results are not in themselves a reliable or independent source, and cannot be used within the article to justify the use of a specific title, but we have no other reliable criteria to apply for a perfect decision, and I think the prevalence of the first option is a sufficient reason. Also the fact that the majority so far are against your moving the article, and support "Mahsa Amini protests" as an appropriate title. Even if you felt justified in moving the article, you should have reopened a discussion first.--Ideophagous (talk) 20:05, 7 October 2022 (UTC)

• I agree that Levivich's move doesn't make sense. An informal proposal on 24 September to move it back from Mahsa Amini protests to the current title was unanimously opposed before being closed by Amakuru a week later for being out of process (i.e. missing the RM template). ansh.666 19:31, 6 October 2022 (UTC)
• I support the current title (September 2022 Iranian protests), or similar wording to this. Many sources simply refer to these as "protests" in the first instance (while mentioning Mahsa Amini as the cause later on). This is also consistent with a number of similar articles listed at the Iran protests disambiguation page. – QueenofBithynia (talk) 20:11, 6 October 2022 (UTC)
• Levivich can you please explain the rationale for your page move [7] from Mahsa Amini protests to September 2022 Iranian protests, as it appears to be against consensus as seen at Talk:September_2022_Iranian_protests#Requested_move_24_September_2022? Thanks. - Fuzheado | Talk 20:12, 6 October 2022 (UTC)
  • @Fuzheado: Sure, I posted an explanation above at #move this article to Iran's 2022 Protests, but I'll expand here and also address your specific question about the discussion you linked to.

  There was no consensus at #Requested_move_24_September_2022, or at #Requested move 27 September 2022. Despite those threads being titled "Requested move", they were not proper WP:RMs. This is confirmed by Amakuru's closing statement, which calls them "unofficial discussions." The move from "September 2022 Iranian protests" to "Mahra Amini protests" was a WP:BOLD move (no WP:RM) on 22 September that was reverted (multiple times) and objected-to by multiple editors. Once the WP:BOLD move was challenged, the article should have returned to the original title ("September 2022 Iranian protests"). That it was re-moved to the new title was a mistake, which I've corrected. Because the BOLD move was challenged, any move should be done via RM. I'm glad that this RM is now underway.

  The above is true for any page move. But in this case, it's especially true, because we cannot name a protest movement after a recently-deceased person without being on very solid ground with regards to sources and WP:COMMONNAME. As the WP:V policy says, "exceptional claims require exceptional sources". Naming this article about a protest movement after a specific person, based on a BOLD move that was improperly restored, over the objection of multiple editors, with no actual talk page discussion or consensus (and, most importantly, no analysis of sources that I can see), would violate the spirit (and letter) of our policies. Maybe "Mahsa Amini protests" is, indeed, the WP:COMMONNAME or otherwise the best title per our WP:AT policy, but if that is the case, we need to discuss and decide it by consensus, and not by WP:FAITACCOMPLI. I think we are now on the proper track, with the article at its original title, and this RM proposing the move underway. Levivich (talk) 20:44, 6 October 2022 (UTC)

  Thanks @Levivich, that explanation is much clearer. Trying to follow a trail of disconnected page move logs is not easy. - Fuzheado | Talk 15:10, 7 October 2022 (UTC)

• Support naming Mahsa Amini protests. "September 2022 Iranian protests" doesn't work. Are we going to also create "October 2022 Iranian protests"? --2601:C4:C300:A210:E9C8:5425:151A:2DDB (talk) 20:32, 6 October 2022 (UTC)
• Mildly support Very funny Anon. But I do think that moving this back to the Mahsa Amini protests, should be appropriate. As the protests are still continuing despite we are in the first week of October, but in general both names are fine for the time being.

  However, I do think that we should first carry out the correct protocols instead of not reaching consensus as @Levivich said above, there is no consensus for the previous 2 move requests, only 4 people have "voted". But due to it being closed early and not reaching consensus I think we should carry on the discussion here and not move it until a community consensus has been reached. Randomdudewithinternet (talk) 21:23, 6 October 2022 (UTC)

• Support under the naturalness and recognisability criteria at WP:TITLE, e.g. The Guardian, 6 Oct 2022, "protests over Mahsa Amini's death ... Protests erupted across Iran over the death of Mahsa Amini". Most sources attribute the trigger event of the protests as the authorities' killing of Mahsa Amini. There have already been many bursts of protests in Iran in the last decade or so - Mahsa Amini's name currently seems to be a better recognised identifier than the date. Often people distinguish names better than dates, e.g. the Arab Spring rather than the 2011 Arab world protests. Boud (talk) 22:51, 6 October 2022 (UTC)

  Support This title is additionally a common thread between English and Persian sources. "ادامه اعتراضات به کشته شدن مهسا امینی" "Edāme-ye Eʿterāżāt be Košte Šodan Mahsā Amīnī" "Protests over the Killing of Masha Amini" etc. So the title is recognisable, certainly more so than this being the 8th article simply titled "(Georgian Calendar date) Iranian Protests" on the Iran protests disambiguation page. Pari Sarcinator (talk) 02:06, 7 October 2022 (UTC)

Support Most media outlets are using this to refer to the protests. Taiwanexplorer36051 (talk) 02:20, 7 October 2022 (UTC)

• Support move back, the current title does not describe the subject accurately. - Indefensible (talk) 04:59, 7 October 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose move. The movement is much greater than a legacy of Mahsa Amini. If the protests continue, the "September" can be dropped. WWGB (talk) 05:17, 7 October 2022 (UTC)

  If the protests continue? This is October already, the September should be dropped by now. - Indefensible (talk) 05:23, 7 October 2022 (UTC)

• Support per WP:COMMONNAME, reliable sources continually refer to these as protests that broke out following the death of Mahsa Amini. It's also a title with keywords people are more likely to be searching for. Also WP:PRECISION, the current title is overly vague since the article is specifically about the protests sparked by Mahsa Amini's death, not just any protests within the timeframe. Siawase (talk) 08:48, 7 October 2022 (UTC)
• Support per WP:COMMONNAME and the previous arguments in favor of moving - easily a more recognizable title. Beodizia (talk) 10:05, 7 October 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose: The goal of the revolution is the overthrow of the regime, so a title along the lines of "2022 Iranian revolution" would be more appropriate; and her name wasn't even Mahsa, but Jîna. Tāwhiwhi (talk) 13:30, 7 October 2022 (UTC)

  Wikipedia is not the place to authoritatively dictate what the goals of a current decentralised political movement are in accordance with WP:RGW. The term revolution isn not commonly employed by sources at this time and Mahsa Amini is currently her WP:COMMONNAME, even though her Kurdish name is ژینا, in instances where it is mentioned in English language sources there is no uniform transliteration used for ژ, weakening the possibility of this being a WP:COMMONNAME. Pari Sarcinator (talk) 13:49, 7 October 2022 (UTC)

  Her real and official name is Mahsa which is a Persian name. Jina (a Kurdish name) is just a pet name used by her family members and close friends. Regular people, such as us Wikipedians, are not supposed to use that pet name. 4nn1l2 (talk) 16:26, 7 October 2022 (UTC)

  According to WP:OFFICIAL her "real and official" name is irrelevant to this discussion. Mahsa Amini is most commonly used by English language sources and rendered with a common transliteration consistently. If English language media coverage were to primarily use Jina/Zhina/Jine/Zhine/Žina etc. pp. when referring to her this would be her WP:COMMONNAME regardless of her legal name. Pari Sarcinator (talk) 16:46, 7 October 2022 (UTC)

Support We are a week into October and these protests have continued. These protests are also widely known as the Mahsa Amini protests. Hell, that's what it's called on the homepage. Owellorthanothy (talk) 14:29, 7 October 2022 (UTC)

It's only called that on the main page because that is what this article was called (this is how WP:CITOGENESIS happens). Levivich (talk) 16:41, 7 October 2022 (UTC)

I see, disregard the last statement in my reply then. Owellorthanothy (talk) 20:16, 7 October 2022 (UTC)

• Support. The protests are no longer just a September 2022 phenomenon, and reliable sources commonly identify them in relation to Mahsa Amini. ╠╣uw [talk] 14:57, 7 October 2022 (UTC)
• Support. I didn't move the page back myself when I first spotted that a bold move had been made, because the new target seemed like the correct one based on reliable sources.  — Amakuru (talk) 15:20, 7 October 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose The protests have already died down, the internet is up again and finally there is a coroner's report about her death (anyone knowledgeable about Iran knew that there would not be a coroner's report before the end of the protests). The protests are OVER. September is exact enough because the bulk of the protests happened then. 4nn1l2 (talk) 15:40, 7 October 2022 (UTC)

  "The protests are over"? [Citation needed.] Does not seem that way per AP. - Indefensible (talk) 16:54, 7 October 2022 (UTC)

• Support the title Mahsa Amini protests, because this is how the demonstrations are commonly known and also how western media seems to have depicted it. However, if protests continue for months and months and the public outrage and resistance generalizes more broadly, then it might make sense to create a distinction between the initial many weeks of protests following her death versus a more complex and protracted struggle (in which case there could possibly be two articles). But only time will tell in those regards, and we will also need to base any such article split or title changes on the reporting of reliable sources in regards to the events on the ground. Cheers! 98.155.8.5 (talk) 18:31, 7 October 2022 (UTC)

• Support as proposed. They're the WP:COMMONNAME and most recognizable title. Why do we call the insurrection (or whatever you want to call it) at the Capitol "January 6"? It's the common name used by scholars, the media, and the general public. Same type of situation here. InvadingInvader (talk) 20:54, 7 October 2022 (UTC)

  Well, I for one think it probably should have been called the QAnon shaman riot at the Capitol, but then, that's just me. : )  Cheers! 98.155.8.5 (talk) 22:44, 7 October 2022 (UTC)

New additions to "See Also"

Should the Indian Protests FOR wearing hijabs be added to the see also? Both happening around the same time and are relevant to each other. See here Lachielmao (talk) 23:46, 6 October 2022 (UTC)

If reliable sources say that the protests in India are a reaction to those in Iran, why not?-- Ideophagous (talk) 19:56, 7 October 2022 (UTC)

Detainees of The September 2022 Iranian protests

It is time we create and record a list of detainees and I was thinking of creating a separate article since:

1. The list is sadly getting long, and
2. The current article is quite long at this point and ongoing

A separate article would also match the existing article in Wiki Farsi and could be linked to it: https://fa.wikipedia.org/wiki/بازداشت%E2%80%8Cشدگان_اعتراضات_سراسری_۱۴۰۱_ایران

It would include the names of the detainees in alphabetic order, followed by a short bio about them. Some examples are: Shervin Hajipour, Faezeh Hashemi Rafsanjani, Niloofar Hamedi, Amir Emad Mirmirani, Majid Tavakoli, Hossein Ronaghi, Kaveh Rezaei, Hossein Mahini, ...

I'm available to create the list, but wanted to run it by everyone here first. BlueBlack (talk) 01:43, 7 October 2022 (UTC)

Go for it. Also I was thinking not just detainees but even more unfortunately casualties too, since there are quite a lot now and some individual cases which have received similar coverage to Mahsa. That way they are not just statistics in a table as well. - Indefensible (talk) 05:16, 7 October 2022 (UTC)

Yes, that makes sense. Should the "casualties" become its own article as well, since sadly it is getting to be quite long? BlueBlack (talk) 13:51, 7 October 2022 (UTC)

Probably just combined for now I think, can always be split again later if needed. - Indefensible (talk) 16:46, 7 October 2022 (UTC)

Reactions

Can sanctions be merged into the reactions section? They seem like a form of reaction, and the material is somewhat related and redundant. Likewise there are international reactions such as support protests mentioned in the timeline, maybe those can be pulled out and organized together as well. - Indefensible (talk) 05:12, 7 October 2022 (UTC)

Oppose. The sanctions section is likely to expand in the future (German foreign minister also alluded to sanctions against Iran, adding to US and Canada sanctions), and should therefore probably be separate.-- Ideophagous (talk) 19:55, 7 October 2022 (UTC)

October 7th pools of blood

Artist Turns Iran Fountains Red to Reflect Bloody Crackdown 2601:C4:C300:A210:3CAE:B1DD:FCF:FDE3 (talk) 17:55, 7 October 2022 (UTC)

 Not done It's not clear what edit you want to do.---Wikaviani ^{(talk) (contribs)} 18:33, 7 October 2022 (UTC)

Timeline.--2601:C4:C300:A210:BC1F:E1B0:32AC:1885 (talk) 00:19, 8 October 2022 (UTC)