Talk:Battle of Picacho Pass

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Name

Er... Picacho isn't much of a pass, it's more of a waypoint, or landmark, no? It's a saddle peak in massive flatland. Ronabop 12:23, 27 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I know. I had always thought of it as the "battle of Picacho Peak" when I lived in Tucson, but the source websites are united in this name for the battle. There is a spur of mountains that points towards Picacho Peak. I can only assume that the gap between the peak and this spur (through which I-10 runs) is the eponymous pass. --BlueMoonlet 16:01, 27 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Confederate Victory

It is well known that the Confederates watched the Union cavalry retreat after the engagement. One of the soldiers actually drew a sketch of the scene. The Confederates withdrew after watching the Union cavalry retreat, then they followed protocol and headed back south to Tucson to warn the Confederate garrison.

Battle of Picacho peak, not Pass

Peak or Pass, the battle should not be named "Battle of Picacho Pass" because the name is misleading and the battle did not occur specifically in the pass but all around Picacho Peak. The Union attacked with two small cavalry forces, though only one of which actually engaged the enemy, there was more than twenty Union cavalrymen at Picacho Peak that day, I forgot the exact number but I beleieve the unengaged force numbered less than 13. Both cavalry forces started out at the same point, north of the peak, who then proceded to circle the peak. One of the cavalry forces took the western half-circle path around the peak and the other force took up the eastern half-circle movement. Meaning the battlefield exists all around the peak and not just in the pass which is located roughly northeast of the peak if I remember correctly. This is why it should read Peak and not Pass because, as I stated above, the action did not occur just in the pass but in both the pass and the surrounding terrain of the peak. When I enter in "Battle of Picacho Peak" on google or something, more often it is written as such and not as "Battle of Picacho Pass". I will change it back now if I can.--70.176.164.179 (talk) 01:00, 13 December 2009 (UTC) This is my user name for now, I forgot my password but I am known on wiki as Az81964444 of Tucson, Arizona.[reply]

Searching Google 1/1/2010 reveals "about 56,600" results for "Battle of Picacho Pass" and "about 41,600" for "Battle of Picacho Peak." Altavista indicates that "Battle of Picacho Pass" is three times more common than "Battle of Picacho Peak." The battle was not confined to the pass, but neither was it confined to the peak. The arguments for labelling the "Battle of Picacho Pass" title as "incorrect" are subjective or faulty. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.208.63.37 (talk) 21:24, 1 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Battle???

23 men is not a battle, is a brawl. --84.126.10.233 (talk) 09:44, 25 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The following sentence appears in the "Battle" section: "Twelve Union cavalry troopers and one scout (reported to be mountain man Pauline Weaver but in reality Tucson resident John W. Jones), commanded by Lieutenant James Barrett of the 1st California Cavalry, were conducting a sweep of the Picacho Peak area, looking for Confederates reported to be nearby." The parenthetical provides no citation for the fact of either the reported scout or the actual scout. A citation to this information should be provided. Kek926 (talk) 06:52, 10 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Furthermore, the following quotes appear in the "Battle" section without any citation: However, "Lt. Barrett acting alone rather than in concert, surprised the Rebels and should have captured them without firing a shot, if the thing had been conducted properly." Instead, in midafternoon the lieutenant "led his men into the thicket single file without dismounting them. The first fire from the enemy emptied four saddles, when the enemy retired farther into the dense thicket and had time to reload. ... Barrett followed them, calling on his men to follow him." Kek926 (talk) 06:56, 10 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

This sentence makes no sense: "Fierce and confused fighting continued among the mesquite and arroyos for 90 minutes, with two more Union fatalities and three troopers wounded." Who are "the mesquite and arroyos"? These terms are not mentioned elsewhere. Kek926 (talk) 07:04, 10 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Do these links help? Carptrash (talk) 07:08, 10 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Sources

I'm not sure if anyone is monitoring this page, but I removed both of the footnotes given in the article as questionable or even impossible to verify. I will be working soon to replace them with good sources. --Andy Walsh (talk) 05:39, 20 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Westernmost?

This page describes Picacho Peak as being "the westernmost battle of the American Civil War".

I don't see how this can be defended considering that Wikipedia has an article on the battle at Stanwix Station and that battle is mentioned in this very article. For those who don't know the territory, Stanwix Station, also known as Flapjack Ranch Station, is located on the Butterfield Stage Line between Maricopa Wells Station near present day Phoenix and Yuma. Picacho Peak is located east of Phoenix, between Phoenix and Tucson. Which would make Stanwix Station the westernmost battle.

The route of the Butterfield Stage Line roughly follows the present day route of the Southern Pacific railroad.

All three Civil War battles in Arizona were part of a Confederate campaign to impede Union troop movement from California into Arizona by disrupting operations of the Butterfield Stage. All three battles took place at or near stage stations. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pls~enwiki (talk • contribs) 07:13, 4 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I believe the reason is in the parsing of the term "battle", and that Stanwix Station is considered to be merely a skirmish. From the Stanwix Staion article: "The westernmost skirmish of the American Civil War, which occurred at Stanwix Station". Mojoworker (talk) 15:02, 4 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Monument

I believe the monument with the 3 rifles has nothing to do with the Civil War, but commemorates the Mormon Battalion passing through almost 15 years earlier.

See here: Picture history: Picacho Peak — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:80D5:CDB0:F1A2:6718:F3C8:BF41 (talk) 00:53, 18 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]