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Wiki Education assignment: Crime and Violence

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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 28 August 2023 and 15 December 2023. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Jonas-heegaard (article contribs). Peer reviewers: Bellat123.

— Assignment last updated by Ruby2017 (talk) 15:30, 26 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Recent large removal of country specific information

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How much (if any) of very large amount of information (all the country specific sections) that was recently removed by Drmies, should remain in this article? I agree that specific examples should be removed, but I do not think it is appropriate to remove it all simply because nobody had bothered to edit it in a decade. There is clearly information there which was well sourced and would merit being included as part of either very widely covered incidents or very relevant country level summary information. If the work to do this isn't forthcoming, the status quo ante should be preserved for as long as it takes to attract improvement (which is long standing Wikipedia practice when it comes to non-harmful content). Better to have a long but poor article rather than a short one which obscures the effort others have put in to include country specific information that would belong in this article if it were ever to be finished to a high standard. Examples that come to mind were information such as the fact hooliganism in China is often corruption related, or that an African international fixture resulted in a border closure. I did not know these things, and perhaps never would have if I hadn't known how to check. These are only representative, there are many others in that vast amount of information that was removed wholesale. I sadly lack the time to identify them all right now, and might not even want to do so if there is broad agreement that none of it warrants retention, or that it does but it can be left out until someone cares enough to put it back in. ICF 225 (talk) 16:37, 20 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Agree, specific examples of incidents that have maybe added for bravado, or are unsourced, should be taken out, but a blanket removal of 195k bytes is disproportionate to the level of concern in the tags. Crowsus (talk) 19:29, 20 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Crowsus, sorry, but NOTNEWS applies here as well. An article on hooliganism should not be a list of hooliganism incidents. As for the user you agreed with, they're nothing but a sock. Drmies (talk) 22:54, 20 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Crowsus, you still haven’t managed to produce an argument. “Go sentence by sentence” must have been intended to ridicule. No one should have to wade through so much crsp. Drmies (talk) 04:06, 21 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Pretty much agree with the total removal. It serves very little to keep listing incidents of violence etc. It’s a frequent occurrence at matches and unfortunately each incident becomes just an item of news and almost always not worthy of an entry into an encyclopaedia. Racism in association football has the same problem, a seemingly endless stream of incidents.--Egghead06 (talk) 07:17, 21 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
*Some football hooliganism in Germany has been linked to neo-Nazism and far right groups.[72]
  • Local derbies between Budapest teams Ferencvárosi Torna Club (based in Ferencváros) and Újpest FC (based in Újpest) are frequently occasions for violence between supporters.[86]
  • The term ultrà or ultras is used to describe hooligans in Italy. Italy's ultras started in the late 1960s and early 1970s, as wannabe paramilitary groups, and gave themselves names such as Commandos, Guerrillas and Fedayeen.[87] One group of Juventus’ ultras are called Droogs (named after the violent types in A Clockwork Orange).[87] Every Italian club has its ultra gang and big clubs have dozens.[87]
What's wrong with those statements (apart from 'wannabe')? They were in the cull, and there are many more. I can see from your edit history (where you are doing a huge amount of important work combating vandalism, trolls and other malign influences) there were 2 minutes between your previous edit and the chop one here, so there can only have been a very brief scan of the content before you decided it was sub-standard in its entirety. I feel you've rushed to that conclusion, you probably don't have the time to do it thoroughly and your response above shows that you don't have the inclination either. Perhaps 'country by country' would have been a more appealing phrasing as somnetional sections a are indeed just a list of incidents which prove nothing - but not all. Crowsus (talk) 09:37, 21 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Crowsus, I think you were responding to me, but I can't tell for sure since the indents are so messed up. I think you put a few quotes from the article in, but I don't know why or what they are supposed to mean. If those are statements you want to keep, keep them--instead, you just restored 200k of factoids and tripe. No, I have not rushed to any conclusion, and if there is THIS MUCH trash, it's better to start again without doing sections for every single damn country in the world. That's not writing an encyclopedia, it's just copying and pasting factoids. Drmies (talk) 14:04, 21 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

English disease

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Look up English disease in Wiktionary, the free dictionary.

This term was used for all sorts of things, see the Wiktionary entry. If qe are going to refer to it in the text we should ideally have some idea of when usage was current and among whom. For example is it in widespread common usage, or only occasionally, in UK reporting. All the best: Rich Farmbrough 13:46, 11 June 2024 (UTC).[reply]

RS use this, so there is no need for the "by whom" tag here.--Boynamedsue (talk) 12:43, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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