Talk:Harry West

Relevance to Hunger Strikes.

So how exactly is he relevant? Conypiece 00:11, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Major political figure during the strike. Scalpfarmer 00:12, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

How was he major? Please do explain? He was a candidate ( and a reluctant one at that!) that just so happened to stand against Bobby Sands. He did not partake in the strike, he had no influence over the strike, he held no leadership position during the strike. I am actually really interested to how you can call him a 'major political figure'. And also I do not agree as will many others that he should be on the template, so that is not a valid excuse. Ohh and another thing, isn't it strange that you seem to appear when Padraig's not around... damn my paranoia. Conypiece 00:24, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

The by-election was one of the focal points of the hunger strike. He took part in the by-election. Therefore he was a major figure. I would suggest you refrain from making any further ad hominem arguments. Scalpfarmer 00:29, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

It took part during the strike but was not directly related to it. The election happened because the outgoing MP passed away. There was an election, Sands went up, not the hunger strikes. I'm not a political amatuer. You can use your threats of edits wars but I am not letting this one drop just because you/padraig think a certain way. Conypiece 00:37, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Until the by-election the Republican Movement was having difficulty obtaining publicity for the hunger strikers. The by-election and Sands' victory turned the hunger strike into worldwide news. I do not understand how you can say the by-election was just something that happened during the strike and wasn't directly related to it under the circumstances. Scalpfarmer 00:42, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Seriously don't use that 'the election made people pay attention line' with me. The strikes were already news. Yes it may have shook Westminister for a few days (again not relevant to Harry West). And yes I still say the by-election was just something that happened. It would have still happened if there had not been a strike on. Im interested in seeing what other contributors think on this issue for your individual opinion should not shape this article. Conypiece 00:48, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Indeed what makes the unsuccessful Ulster Unionist candidate an inherently important figure the hunger strikes in and of themselves? More of a major figure than the UUP candidate in the second by-election, who isn't on the template? What about the leaders of the major parties in Northern Ireland at the time? If anything surely it should be the by-election itself that's on the template? Timrollpickering 00:51, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

I didn't create the template, I merely restored it after it was removed by an editor who frequently removes information about republicans from articles (or attempts to delete the articles altogether). The second by-election was not as significant as the first. For the publicity - Sands ' election spurred frantic attempts to mediate or find a resolution. An envoy from the Pope spent an hour with Sands in his cell, and media from all over the world flocked to Belfast. Scalpfarmer 00:56, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Care to answer Tim's questions? Should Owen Carron, Danny Morrison et al not also be on the template? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Conypiece (talk • contribs) 01:02, August 8, 2007.

I already did, and Owen Carron is on the template. Scalpfarmer 01:06, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

So what was your reasoning for not having the party leaders names included? Because you did not make the template, then do you think the current one is inadeqaute and a new one should be created? Apologies, did not see Carron's name on it, however whilst looking over it I spotted that the Fermanagh and South Tyrone by-election, August 1981 is included, so should all of its candidates be included? For that is your sole reasoning as to why Harry West is included. Also I am curious as to who is currently editing the template... Conypiece 01:15, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

I've just added both by-elections to the template as the start of an events section. There is a point that the second was less significant than the first (but still clearly of note) but I still don't see why West alone qualifies for inclusion - was the April by-election turned into a very personalised thing on the Unionist side? Timrollpickering 01:17, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Because West stood as the only other candidate against Bobby Sands maybe.--padraig 01:20, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

I also added the Irish general election, as strikers were elected. The second by-election was notable, but the first was really the "big one". Bear in mind the template is a navigation template, so do you really have anything against more incoming links to this article? Scalpfarmer 01:21, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

The second by election was very notable because Thatcher rush through legisation to ensure another prisoner couldn't stand to replace Bobby Sands, which is why Owen Carron who was his election agent was forward as a proxy prisoner candidate, thatcher had hoped that would break the publicity gained from Sands election, but this failed when Carron won.--padraig 01:34, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

So going by the consensus that the 2nd was also important and then following claims that Harry West's name was included solely because he was a candidate, then should I include the names of the 4 other candidates who are currently not on the template? Conypiece 01:57, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

The other four candidates in the second By election played a minor part in that as the Unionist vote united against Carron in an attempt to defeat him, I also doubt if many of the minor candidates at the time would warrent an article in wikipedia.--padraig 02:08, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Minor or not they still had as much influence on the hunger strikes as Harry West did. Just because they don't have a wiki page does not mean they should not be included. So yes/no, should the 5 other candidates be included in the template? I'm only going by what you/Scalp said. Conypiece 02:17, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

No I don't think the other candidates where relevent, West was put up as a Unified Unionist candidate to try and defeat the hunger strike candidate, while he may have been reluctant to stand the Unionists put up a determined campaign to take that seat.--padraig 12:21, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Erm but then Ken Maginnis was the sole Unionist candidate in August, as Seamus Close was the sole APNI candidate, I fail to see your point. The template has been edited, if West must be on it, then the other 5 candidates must also be represented. Conypiece 12:54, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

No they Don't this election was a two horse race, the other candidates didn't feature in it, and there total vote between them was irrelevent, to the outcome.--padraig 13:09, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Sorry but I am no longer talking about the 1st by election. You are wrong however, these 5 candidates played a key role in the 2nd by election, they made up 80% of the candidates! Therefore you cannot choose which candidates you think should be on the template. They all had as much influence on the strike as Harry West did. (btw I left you a question on your page, please answer it) Conypiece 13:48, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Your question on my talkpage was already answered by an admin, there is not much more I can add to what he said, that I haven't already said in that discussion. As for this the other candidates they played a minor role in this election, their input had no impact on the overall result, West was the main Unionist candidate and only one that could hoped to take the seat from the hunger strike candidate.--padraig 14:00, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

There were two elections which a few people claimed had major influence on the Hunger Strike. Harry West just happened to be the sole candidate in the first. In the 2nd election there were 5 candidates standing against the 'pro hunger striker' candidate (Carron). Therefore all candidates must be represented. Conypiece 14:07, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

In the second Ken_Maginnis was the Main Unionist candidate, the other four candidate were no hopers, there is no need to mention them in the infobox as the election itself is linked.--padraig 14:12, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

I fail to see how you can detirmine between 'hopers' and 'no hopers'. If their name was on the ballot, then according to you they were taking part in a significant part of the hunger strike. Whether they were elected or not is irrelevant. West was not elected. Maginnis was not elected. Conypiece 14:48, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Both West and Maginnis were major candidates, the others involved in the second by-election were not. Scalpfarmer 07:55, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Coneypiece stop removing the Hungerstrike template form this article.--padraig 23:20, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

This has been discussed, Template talk:1981 Hunger Strike —Preceding unsigned comment added by Conypiece (talk • contribs) 23:28, August 28, 2007 (UTC)

What was discussed was you wanting Wests name removed from the template, but the template links to the by election discussed in this article.--padraig 23:33, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Protected

Since apparently, the two sides are going to edit war unto infinity, this page is protected for a couple weeks (by then, I hope the VK ArbCom will be off and running. SirFozzie 00:15, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject class rating

This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 16:05, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Improving article

Anyone editing this article may be interested to know that this becvame availaible today. Henry Patterson is an excellent historian.Traditional unionist (talk) 17:31, 4 January 2008 (UTC)