Talk:Muslim Tyagi

Proposal to merge

this page should not be merged with main tyagi because both muslim and hindu tyagi is just had the similarity in the past before the conversion of Hindu tyagi in Muslim tyagi but after adopting Islam, Muslim tyagi culture and tradition is entirely different from Hindu tyagi so you must not merge this seprate article with main tyagi article,how is possible two diffrent relegion topics are coverd under one relegion topic..? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Javedtyagi 786 (talk • contribs) 05:20, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

No point in having this as a separate article as it is extremely redundant. Will be merged with the main Tyagi article under a section about Islam. Chantoke (talk) 18:12, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

The general convention in South Asia is that religion and caste both define a community. The Muslim Tyagi are now distinct from the wider Hindu Tyagi community, and seen so by the Tyagi. The analogy would be Irish and Ulster Protestants, both consider themselves distinct from each other. Generally all Muslim groups like Muslim Rajput have seperate articles, because they have evolved into distinct groupings. To call an ethnic group redundant in my view is borderline racist. --WALTHAM2 (talk) 12:39, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

I agree with Waltham2 as well. Muslim Tyagis, though the same ethnicity as Tyagis, have an interesting history - especially since 1947. They have migrated in some numbers to Punjab and Sindh in Pakistan. Just as there are articles on Muslim Rajputs or Rohilla Pashtuns. Let's keep a distinct article with strong cross-linkage with Tyagi. Cheers! --Hunnjazal (talk) 19:03, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

Yes, Muslim Tyagies who are migrant in Pakistan from Haryana India should be placed in separate Article. It should be noted for reference that Muslim Tayagies are called themselves Taga still in Pakistan. they have surname of choudhry and sirohey as well —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.83.166.42 (talk) 09:33, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

ya,sure please get it merged.This is the greatest pity of our country INDIA that everybody talks about himself before the country.

"The fact of subsequent conversion to other faiths, did not deprive them of this heritage; just as the Greeks, after their conversion to Christianity, did not lose pride in the mighty achievements of their ancestors, of the Italians in the great days of the Roman Republic and early empire... Christians, Jews, Parsees, Moslems. Indian converts to these religions never ceased to be Indian on account of a change of their faith.... —From The Discovery of India by Jawaharlal Nehru.

Just have a look at the wikipedia of Revolt of 1857,only and only its own SONS were stopping the freedom fighters (just for their own personal gains) and this phenomenon was not limited to any caste or religion. For centuries Tyagis are here in India and as far as converting to Islam is concerned,the great Indian freedom fighter Haji Imdadullah along with other respected Islamic Scholars declared "JEHAD" in 1857 although the fight with British was not for any Islamic reason but was only to free our Motherland INDIA.And all of them fought very bravely at the battle of shamli in 1857.Forget the British Raj,Indians converting to Islam fought with Mughals (see the history of great son of India "Dulla Bhatti").Emperor Aurangzeb settled Afridi Pathans in village Jalalabad in Thana Bhawan area of distt. Muzaffarnagar to control the !!TURBULENT Ranghars in that region,[ A Gazetteer of Muzafarnagar District page 110].In the wikipedia on Meos (Mewati,also muslim rajputs)it is mentioned that "To the Mughals, the Mewatis were "rebels". To British ethnographers, they were "criminal tribes". All these Muslims fought against external invaders (Muslim/British) for the honour and pride of their beloved motherland. What i want to say is that you or anyone else can't change your roots,be proud of it,personally I opine that merge this section with Tyagi having Islamic Faith. Its my Humble request to all the sons of Mother India UNITE above all caste,creed,religion or again u will fall prey to "DIVIDE & RULE",And specially to Muslims there is no caste system in Islam,so either be just plain muslim or else u can't be a Tyagi/Rajput Muslim. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 180.149.48.51 (talk) 08:53, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

for merging muslim tyagi with hindu tyagi we can make a common page naming tyagi then it has its two subsection as muslim and hindu.... otherwise it fine to be separate page — Preceding unsigned comment added by Firozdelhite (talk • contribs) 05:37, 30 July 2011 (UTC)

From the above, it seems there is a 50/50 mixed consensus. Again, I haven't seen anything to address the redundancies between the two articles or to prove that Muslim and Hindu Tyagis are two different ethnic groups, and not surnames. All references I have come across treat it as a surname. We learned our lesson with partition the first time guys. Parsh (talk) 13:27, 24 November 2012 (UTC) Note: Please continue all further discussions regarding the merger on the Talk:Tyagi page. Thank you. Parsh (talk) 13:27, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

Merger

I have spent some time away from Wikipedia, but coming back to this page two years later, I have not seen any good response to my question.

The page will be combined with the general Tyagi page per Wikipedia guidelines (please see Wikipedia:Merging), with Muslim and Hindu subsections, appropriately referenced. The article is about the Caste not the religion. The patterns by which the name has divided into Muslim and Hindu groups over time has to be addressed as well.

Quote from Wikipedia policy page:

Overlap: There are two or more pages on related subjects that have a large overlap. Wikipedia is not a dictionary; there does not need to be a separate entry for every concept in the universe. For example, "flammable" and "non-flammable" can both be explained in an article on flammability.

Context: If a short article requires the background material or context from a broader article in order for readers to understand it. For example, minor characters from works of fiction are generally covered in a "List of characters in <work>" article(and can be merged there); see also Wikipedia:Notability (fiction).

This article is poorly referenced, it is not written in encyclopedic language, and several of the references don't even contain the material that the article is referencing them for. Both articles are two years overdue for a cleanup and merger, unfortunately. Please discuss any concerns on my (Chantoke:talk|talk page). Please, it is important to remember this is not a forum for personal opinions. We must adhere to encyclopedic standards for the website to matter. Parsh (talk) 09:59, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

==Merger Proposal== Please continue all discussion of the merger on the Talk:Tyagi page, as that is the proper and main forum. Do not hesitate to leave any personal messages on my talk page, but the main discussion needs to take place at the Talk:Tyagi Page Parsh (talk) 12:34, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

Towns and villages

This section is completely unreferenced. Is this from the District Gazeteer or British viceroy or.. made up? Please advise. Parsh (talk) 13:09, 24 November 2012 (UTC) the people came in Pakistan from Haryana and important villages from where they came are Rakhsera, Baiga (The largest villages of Muslims tagas their) Pabnaira, Rasoolpur, Momarpur, Phundhri Jason Garh Chandoli and Naibance. Many other small villages are also mentioned by our elders. Another stream is of Delhi people whose main villages are Tihar, Kalu Sarai. In UP Ghospur, Kotaisra and Bachiti are main villages. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 175.107.0.185 (talk) 08:19, 14 June 2013 (UTC)