Talk:Syro-Malabar Catholic Major Archeparchy of Ernakulam–Angamaly

From elsewhere, PLEASE MERGE

The section below was removed from page Category:Syro-Malabar Catholic Archbishops of Ernakulam-Angamaly, where the text is obviously misplaced. Please merge it into the article. Lolo Sambinho (talk) 00:13, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

History

The Archdiocese of Ernakulam was established as a Vicariate in 1896 by Pope Leo XIII by the Bull "Quae Rei Sacrae". The headquarters of the Archdiocese of Ernakulam is the capital city of the former Cochin state. The faithful of the Archdiocese and the main bulk of the Syrian Christian population of Kerala are the descendants of those who were converted to Christianity by St. Thomas, the Apostle of Christ who landed at Cranganore in 52 A.D. The Syrian Christians had their own bishops from the Middle East till 1597 when the last foreign (Syrian) Bp Mar Abraham died. After the death of Alexander Parambil who was an Indian and the first Vicar Apostolic of Malabar (1663), the Malabar Catholics of Syrian Rite were brought under the jurisdiction of Padroado, and later brought under the foreign Carmelite Vicars Apostolic of Malabar residing at Varapuzha.

After the establishment of the Syro-Malabar Hierarchy in 1887 by the Brief "Quod Jam Pridem" of Pope Leo XIII, Most Rev Mar Aloysius Pazheparambil was appointed first Vicar Apostolic of Ernakulam on August 11, 1896. Mar Aloysius Pazheparambil was succeeded by the late Most Rev. Dr. Augustine Kandathil in 1919. On December 21, 1923 he was nominated Archbishop of Ernakulam when the Syro-Malabar Hierarchy was constituted by Pope Pius XI. He was succeeded by his auxiliary Bp Joseph Parecattil in 1956. In the same year the diocese of Kothamangalam was bifurcated from the Archdiocese. He was made a Cardinal in 1969 and was the Archbishop until he retired from office on April 1, 1984. His auxiliary Mar Sebastian Mankuzhikary took over the administration of the Archdiocese as Apostolic Administrator. The then Archbishop of Changanacherry, Mar Antony Padiyara was transferred to this Metropolitan See on May 18, 1985 and he assumed charge of the Archdiocese on July 3, 1985. Mar Mankuzhikary continued as Auxiliary until April 28, 1986 when he was nominated Bishop of the new Diocese of Thamarassery and assumed its charge on July 3, 1986. His Eminence Cardinal Parecattil who was leading a retired life was called to eternal reward on February 20, 1987.

Pope John Paul II raised Mar Antony Padiyara to the dignity of a Cardinal on June 28, 1988. On September 6, 1992 Rev. Dr. Jacob Manathodath was nominated Bishop Auxiliary to Cardinal Antony Padiyara. On January 29, 1993, it was made public that His Holiness Pope John Paul II had elevated the Syro-Malabar Church to the rank of Archbishopric Major with the title of Ernakulam - Angamaly and its seat in Ernakulam. And His Eminence Antony Cardinal Padiyara was made the first Archbishop Major. Bishop Jacob Mananthodath was nominated Bishop of Palghat.

Cardinal Antony Padiyara retired from his office on December 18, 1996. Rev. Fr Varkey Vithayathil, cssr, was made Titular Archbishop of Antinoe and the Apostolic Administrator of the Syro-Malabar Church and of the Archdiocese of Ernakulam-Angamaly. Abp Vithayathil assumed office on January 18, 1997.

The present Archdiocese of Ernakulam comprises the taluks of Kunnathunad, Kanayannoor, Vaikom, Shertallay, Mukundapuram spread out in the districts of Ernakulam, Trichur, Kottayam and Alleppey in Kerala State.

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:

• Unofficial Flag of Syro Malabar Church.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 07:09, 25 August 2019 (UTC)

Content dispute

Hannah K John has repeatedly added content regarding a schism in the Archeparchy of Ernakulam–Angamaly (see these edits for an example). The edit consists of a largely unreadable wall of text that quotes several sections of Canon Law and some Papal missives, but does not give any evidence from reliable sources that an actual schism exists or has been declared. The writings appear to suggest that, based on the editor's own interpretations, a schism exists, but such an interpretation would be WP:SYNTH, not upheld by any reliable sources. This editor has declined to engage in conversation regarding this content, so I will begin the discussion. If Hannah can provide reliable sources, I ask that they do so. Otherwise the material should be deleted, and repeated attempts to restore it viewed as disruptive. WikiDan61^ChatMe!_ReadMe!! 22:56, 24 January 2022 (UTC)

Yes, the 'Kariyil schism' is original research, not supported by any sources.The Discoverer (talk) 04:17, 25 January 2022 (UTC)

Invalid explanation

WikiDan61I have added around 8 evidences as the reference to support the Kariyil Schism, Including the letters and documents from Holy See which explicitly show that all Syro Malabar bishops are bound to follow the synodal decision on the uniform ode of celebration of Holy Qurbana. Please explain your comments with valid reference/documents ( Not from Kariyil or Ernakulam Angamaly press releases). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hannah K John (talk • contribs) 23:13, 24 January 2022 (UTC) Hannah K John (talk) 23:17, 24 January 2022 (UTC)

On Wikipedia one cannot add any content that is not directly supported by reliable sources. Whatever conclusion you want to add to the article must be directly written in reliable sources, we cannot reference various letters documents and derive our own conclusions from them. The Discoverer (talk) 04:23, 25 January 2022 (UTC)

@Hannah K John: As noted, you have provided text of documents that explain that the bishops are bound to follow the synodal decision, but you have not provided any reliable source that verifies that their actions have been explicitly declared as schism, either by the Syro-Malabar bishops themselves or by the Holy See. You, personally, don't get to interpret the documents and declare the schism to exist. WikiDan61^ChatMe!_ReadMe!! 12:55, 25 January 2022 (UTC)

@WikiDan61: Stop being threatening and explain why it is not being considered as schism with proper references. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hannah K John (talk • contribs) 21:32, 25 January 2022 (UTC)

@Hannah K John: You have added a bunch of Canon Law documents, and a bunch of communication between the Holy See and the Bishop. The communication indicates that there is a dispute between the Bishop and the See, but not that there is an actual declared schism. Your interpretation of the documents to declare this a schism is your own interpretation of the documents that is not supported by any reliable source. Wikipedia editors are not allowed to make such interpretations; we must rely on reliable sources that make those conclusions and then cite those sources. WikiDan61^ChatMe!_ReadMe!! 21:35, 25 January 2022 (UTC)

@Hannah K John: I note that you have added links to communications between the Papal See and the local Bishop that are stored on your own GitHub. Are these documents public? How have you come into possession of them? WikiDan61^ChatMe!_ReadMe!! 21:41, 25 January 2022 (UTC)

@WikiDan61: : See one of your comments - You have added the following comment while removing the Kariyil Schism content. It clearly shows that your major concern is not the content accuracy. You dont want something which could defame the syro malabar eparchy. And also that github is a repository for the reference documents, those are available to the public especially to the people belong to syro malabar. If you want I can add more references from the external parties or newspapers.

"13,768 BYTES REMOVED, 1 DAY AGO The added material appears to be accusing the Syro-Malabar Eparchy of a schism, but there are no reliable sources to back such. " — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hannah K John (talk • contribs)

@Hannah K John: I don't know which comment you're referring to (You have added the following comment... -- which comment?) but my major concern is that facts presented in this article have reliable sources. You have presented a ton of primary sources (communications between Rome and the Eparchy, and quotations of Canon Law) and from those sources, you have drawn the conclusion that there is a schism. That's not how Wikipedia works, and your refusal to understand this fact is problematic. WikiDan61^ChatMe!_ReadMe!! 23:37, 25 January 2022 (UTC)

@WikiDan61: Here yo go. "13,768 BYTES REMOVED, 1 DAY AGO

The added material appears to be accusing the Syro-Malabar Eparchy of a schism, but there are no reliable sources to back such. " I already added this above as well.( Please refer edit history - Revision as of 18:16, 24 January 2022 for more details)

@Hannah K John: Precisely. What part of my comment do you disagree with? (And, by the way, for other editors following along, this matter has been brought to WP:NORN.) WikiDan61^ChatMe!_ReadMe!! 23:53, 25 January 2022 (UTC)

This is quite obviously WP:original research. We don't need "evidence" from which we draw our own conclusions, we need WP:reliable sources that explicitly come to these conclusions, which we then can cite in Wikipedia. @Hannah K John: please make yourself familiar with the principles of editing in WP. Besides adding text not supported by reliable sources, you have persistently re-added original research against the policy-based objections by WikiDan61, which counts as WP:edit warring. –Austronesier (talk) 21:20, 26 January 2022 (UTC)