Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Barry Lando

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. This is a tough decision. WP:COMMONSENSE trumps all policy here at Wikipedia, and always has, and I'm leaning on it a bit here. The problem is that WP:V is also important. Critical in fact. WP:V only requires that contentious fact CAN be verified, not that they always are, but this is a BLP, etc etc etc The votes are leaning towards delete, but are tempered by the reasonable claim that it is virtually impossible for this person to not be notable. The issue isn't one of WP:GNG, it is one of WP:V, and often, that means time to find. Because of the weakness of the delete votes, I'm kicking this can down the road as I really don't see a hard consensus for outright deletion. It is strongly, strongly advised that the search for sources continue. I'm hoping this never comes back (or at least not for 90 days to allow time) but most everyone here agrees that it should be sourceable, so maybe it is. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 23:58, 8 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Barry Lando

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Successful in his chosen career, but I couldn't establish that he meets WP:BIO or WP:GNG. Boleyn (talk) 05:44, 20 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Comment he does seem to be an up and coming writer....Antonio El Unico Martin (que que??) 10:42, 20 June, 2015 (UTC)

Would be silly to delete this. He's the father of investigative journalism (anything Mike Wallace did, he created and produced). The Herbert v Lando case also had a tremendous impact, and over time he's become one of the world's leading experts on the Middle East. Many more sources to be found, his book "Web of Deceit," his many pieces in the NYTimes, LA Times, Atlantic, Herald Tribune, Le Monde just to name a few, his documentary that came out about Saddam, his appearance on the Colbert Report... Just to name a few. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Anthonynathaniel (talk • contribs) 19:33, 21 June 2015 (UTC) — Anthonynathaniel (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. The preceding unsigned comment was added at contribs (UTC).[reply]

A journalist does not get into Wikipedia on the basis of sources in which he's the bylined author of content about other things — he gets into Wikipedia on the basis of sources in which he's the subject of content written by other people. So "his many pieces in [any publication you can possibly list]" and "his appearance on the Colbert Report" don't count for squat in the notability sweepstakes, if he isn't the subject of enough reliable source coverage to earn one. Bearcat (talk) 20:42, 22 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Canada-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 21:13, 21 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 21:13, 21 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Television-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 21:13, 21 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of News media-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 21:13, 21 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Authors-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 21:13, 21 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

While there is a credible notability claim here, the sourcing ain't cutting it. Three of the five sources namecheck his existence while failing to be about him, and the other two are primary sources — meaning that in terms of satisfying WP:GNG, we're sitting at exactly zero. I'm certainly willing to reconsider this if the sourcing can be improved significantly — but as it stands right now, the quality of sourcing necessary to support either a GNG or a WP:JOURNALIST pass simply is not there in the article's current form. Delete, without prejudice against recreation in the future if it can be sourced better than this. Bearcat (talk) 20:42, 22 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I think this should remain. His behind the scenes contributions make his inclusion mandatory. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Boosieb (talk • contribs) 22:15, 7 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

delete insufficient sources to meet WP:BIO or GNG. LibStar (talk) 16:01, 27 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, JAaron95 (Talk) 16:03, 27 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - bios refer to him as Emmy Award winner (which makes sense). Per WP:ANYBIO he easily qualifies. Unfortunately the complete list of winners for the News & Documentary Emmy Award (official website) only goes through the past 10 years. But if he worked that long at 60 Minutes with Mike Wallace, he probably has wheelbarrows full of Emmys. —Мандичка^YO 😜 08:12, 28 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
~~Delete~~for lack of reliable sources. —Мандичка, where did you see a bio that said he was an emmy winner? I didn't see that in the articles I looked in. Also, I have a vague recollection that somewhere in the policies there is something about being the party to an key lawsuit, but I can't find it. My recollection is that the lawsuit itself is considered notable, but not necessarily the parties -- they have to be notable on their own, not just for the lawsuit. Ring a bell? LaMona (talk) 04:03, 30 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

LaMona - it's in everything that mentions him. [1], [2]. Yes, he and Mike Wallace and 60 Minutes were sued for defamation by someone unhappy with the profile: see Anthony_Herbert_(lieutenant_colonel)#Herbert_v._Lando [3] —Мандичка^YO 😜 04:07, 30 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

User:Wikimandia I looked in NYT coverage of the Emmy's and his name doesn't appear. My guess is that he worked on a 60 minutes program that got an Emmy -- and they give them to the main producers (but without their names in the headline). It would be great to have a good RS for this - one that provides actual verifiability. I'll keep hunting. LaMona (talk) 16:10, 30 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I found sources, but I can't get access to all of them. Most are about the lawsuit: Time. 11/21/1977, Vol. 110 Issue 21, p127. 1p.; Time. 4/30/1979, Vol. 113 Issue 18, p53. 1p.; a search on Variety. I found an article he wrote: [4]; and an award he won [5], the Polk award, but I can't see the article. However, the award itself, along with presumed evidence of the "60 Minutes" Emmy, should be enough. I'm still non-plussed at the lack of sources about this person, because it may mean that the article remains stubbish, which is too bad. Keep LaMona (talk) 16:33, 30 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Where on NYT do you have the Emmy stuff? I have an online subscription and I couldn't find anything much. From 1972 there was an article that said 60 Minutes won every award in its news categories but didn't list them (which stories won, etc) or who specifically got them (reporters/producers/cameramen etc). It's frustrating the Emmy's website only goes back 10 years for News & Documentary winners. —Мандичка^YO 😜 18:03, 30 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

User:Wikimandia -- I didn't find his name related to Emmy's on NYT -- Just in Time. That's why I tried Variety, thinking they'd be more "Emmy" interested. I can't think of any other magazine with a good archive that might cover it. Meanwhile, here's a link to a rather vague statement in WaPo that Lando got a Robert F Kennedy Journalism award, although it's in an aside so it's not quite clear what they won. [6] However, it is another award to add. LaMona (talk) 21:35, 30 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: as failing WP:BIO or WP:GNG. Quis separabit? 13:42, 8 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Delete I gave it my best shot [7], but there isn't enough there. Being a party to the lawsuit, no matter how significant a decision, does not establish Lando's significance. John Lawrence of Lawrence v. Texas does not have an article. 95% of the Variety mentions are in relation to the legal case. The only thing it has going for it is the Polk Award, based on WP:ANYBIO. He is just as much, if not more, responsible for Mike Wallace's 60 Minutes' stories, but no one talks about the producer. Not enough for me. Mnnlaxer (talk) 15:42, 8 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.