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Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Emiway Bantai (2nd nomination)

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Consensus exists below that the article does meet GNG & NMUSIC, and that the potential sources presented do not qualify as significant coverage. Additionally, based on the number of recreations, this title will be salted, with any potential recreations having to go via draft-space and the AfC process. Daniel (talk) 19:20, 28 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Emiway Bantai

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AfDs for this article:

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Emiway Bantai (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)
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Here we go again. There is Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Emiway Bantai from 2019 – water has passed under the bridges since then, but there is also Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Emiway Bantai (Indian rapper) which closed as "delete" 3 months ago. It doesn't help that drafts and articles about this person have been repeatedly created by sockpuppets from one of the paid editing outfits using Wikipedia for promotion of their clients to the point where several titles have been salted, nor does the current state of the article help – the huge tables look like an attempt to bolster perceived notability, and so do exaggerated claims such as "He was also featured in the 2019 musical drama Gully Boy as himself". Most reviews of Gully Boy don't mention Emiway Bantai, but a couple of them include him in a list of "also appearing" rappers, so hardly a case of "featured".

I recommend reading the previous AfD discussions, in particular the one from March 2021, since the question really is whether anything has happened since then to make him notable. I do not believe that is the case. bonadea contributions talk 17:36, 24 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. bonadea contributions talk 17:36, 24 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of India-related deletion discussions. bonadea contributions talk 17:36, 24 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]


  • Delete. There is really not much more evidence of notability than there was when the previous versions were discussed and deleted. The reasons given in those discussions for deletion still apply. (There have been to my knowledge at least 9 creations of this page, which are either currently in existence or in the deleted history at Emiway Bantai, Emiway, Emiway Bantai (Indian rapper), and Draft:Emiway. Enough is enough.) JBW (talk) 22:34, 24 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note - He had one affiliated song article, "Machayenge" which I have redirected to his main article so it does not fall through the cracks. The song article was dependent on scanty and unreliable sources too. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (TALK|CONTRIBS) 15:33, 25 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment (undecided) - I voted in the first AfD on this guy back in January 2019, at which time he caused confusion by performing under two different stage names. It is certainly true that his supporters keep recreating his article, with shifty variations in the title so they can ignore previous consensus to delete. But I am compelled to point out that he has accumulated some accomplishments. He has been noted in Rolling Stone India for winning the Radio City Freedom Award [1], and he has some news coverage in India for a victory at the MTV Europe Awards [2], [3]. A better way to conduct this particular AfD would be to determine whether those awards count as "major" awards under criterion #8 at WP:NMUSICIAN. I am uncertain on that count, hence my "undecided" vote. The article definitely needs cleanup at any rate. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (TALK|CONTRIBS) 15:45, 25 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete, a very well documented nomination. In light of the previous deletion discussions, I will strongly vote for Delete as he doesn't pass WP:GNG and WP:MUSICBIO. ☆★Mamushir (✉✉) 18:57, 28 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep The artist has won MTV EMI award (previously awarded to big artists like Eminem, Yo Yo Honey Singh and many others). In terms of statistics, he seems more notable than any other Indian artists that have a Wiki page. One statistic: 15.7M subs on YouTube with over 2.4B views (highest for an Asian rapper at the moment). He represented India in YouTube Fanfest 2020 and has collaborated with big artists like Macklemore. Definitely, a keep for me based on WP:MUSICBIO. Need to judge the notability of other Indian artists who have a wiki page. (✉✉) 18:51, 3 July 2021 (UTC) — Kalundkaar (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]
  • weak keep,per DoomsDayer and Kaludkaar the subject is quite popular and has many accomplishments.Ratnahastin(t.c) 14:09, 4 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: The two "keep" !votes are not policy-based. Being "quite popular and [have] many accomplishments" is nice, but unless substantiated by in-depth independent sources does not contribute anything to notability. Relisting to give them the chance to give this another try.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Randykitty (talk) 14:39, 5 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Kalundkaar: Please do not make multiple "keep" comments, and there is no need to repeat yourself – you already posted these arguments above. Notability, according to Wikipedia's definition, is not really the same thing as "notability" in the general language. Since you have not made any edits except the two comments you posted in this discussion, you are presumably not very experienced in evaluating notability as Wikipedia uses the term. What qualifies as a "major" award is debatable, and the MTV Europe Music Award for Best Indian Act is very borderline in that respect. This article title could perhaps redirect to the article about the award, as suggested in the guideline. If other artists have received the same award (and I can't find any source claiming that Eminem won that one) that is irrelevant – notability is not inherited. He does not meet any of the other points you mention. Machayenge is not a notable composition, so his writing the lyrics for that doesn't make him notable as a composer. His appearance in Gully Boy must have been very minor given that no independent sources mention it. He has no significant news coverage. His tour in 2019 is not mentioned in the article, and not in any independent sources, and "significant coverage in Bollywood Hungama" does not make sense since that criterion is only met if multiple independent publishers have reported on the tour. Bollywood Hungama is one website, and apparently it was Hungama Digital Media Entertainment that arranged/promoted the tour, according to this press release. The article doesn't mention anything about charting, so that claim is puzzling, especially since a) "UK national chart" is not an existing chart, and b) I can't find any corroboration of that in independent sources. Or any other sources. --bonadea contributions talk 11:50, 11 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Bonadea: Please note the second keep vote was policy based and brings up new points. Consider these points to clarify your doubts/ misinformation. You mentioned you did not find any claim that Eminem won the award but the fact is Eminem won MTV Europe Music Award for Best Hip-Hop 9 times (same award in different category). Kindly check the associated Wikipedia page of the award. The appearance of this artist in the Gully Boy movie is during his song which ran for 2 minutes 15 seconds and there are press release videos [4] where the main hero Ranveer Singh talks about this artist. This [5] [6] [7] mentions the song "Jamaica to India" with Chris Gayle hit Number 1 on multiple charts in India. I see there are several such articles on Google News. [8] [9] The song "Firse Machayenge" was the 7th most streamed song in YouTube India 2020. This artist was the Judge in the reality show Red Bull Spotlight [10] along with fellow artists Divine and Naezy in 2021. Kalundkaar (talk) 15:36, 11 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
It is not a vote, and nobody is allowed to make more than one "keep" or "delete" comment. I have struck your second "keep", so you don't need to worry about that. As for your other comments, the award category that Emiway Bantai won is "best Indian act", and what I explicitly said is that I find no sources that say that Eminem has won it. I know he won in that other award category, which may or may not be a notable award. But that does not matter, and it wouldn't have mattered even if he had won in the same category. Eminem is a notable person, but which awards he has won has zero impact on the notability of another artist. Further: a brief appearance in a film, not mentioned in a single independent source, is nowhere near what MUSICBIO #10 asks for. Regarding the sources you linked to here, this, this, and this is the same press release published in three different places, so it is only one source, and MUSICBIO #1 excludes press releases. "Multiple charts" is very vague. On which specific chart(s) did the song appear at #1? (Or did you get that information from the press release?) This is the only independent and secondary source among the lot, it is pretty good and if it had been primarily about Emiway it might have been sufficient, but it is not significant coverage. Regards, --bonadea contributions talk 08:43, 17 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Bonadea Thank you for your consistent effort. I am not convinced by your points though as I follow the artist's work along with other artists in this genre. Can you give your opinion on the song "Firse Machayenge"? which is the 7th most streamed song in YouTube India 2020 and is on YouTube Music Chart. It seems you ignored this point along with the point of the artist's song (not only an appearance) in the movie Gully Boy which are in line with WP:MUSICBIO and WP:COMPOSER. All songs of the artist is on YouTube Music Chart top 100. For example: [11] for 1 week has 2 songs of this artist namely "Jamaica to India" and "Shy". "Firse Machayenge" was #3 on YouTube Music Chart for the first week [12] when it released. Kalundkaar (talk) 17:01, 17 July 2021 (UTC)— Kalundkaar (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]
In the interest of not bludgeoning the debate, this comment and my comment below, posted at the same time, should hopefully be my last contributions to this discussion. Please do not comment on other contributors, but only on the article. Thank you. Re Machayenge and the "YouTube chart", see below. Re the film, I already made this point. A brief appearance in a film, which is not even mentioned by any independent sources, does not make the performer notable. There is nothing about it that meets any of the criteria in WP:MUSICBIO or WP:COMPOSER. --bonadea contributions talk 21:49, 18 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Kindly note that I commented on a related vote on being inspired by your comments on others' keep vote. I do not see any page that explains the related areas a new contributor should not participate in but others can. Unfortunately, it seems you have ignored many of the points I presented after intense research by making vague comments ending with "existing articles are not notable as per your personal opinion". Kalundkaar (talk) 15:24, 25 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

*Keep - Gets my vote. Artist seems notable to me. Kevin19781 (talk) 01:49, 17 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

It would be helpful to hear which notability criterion or criteria you believe he meets. Since your account was created today and you have no mainspace edits, only !votes in 20 AfD discussions with a couple of minutes between each of your posts, your comment would carry greater weight when an administrator comes along to close the discussion if you based it on Wikipedia policy. --bonadea contributions talk 08:43, 17 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

:::Yes, my account is new and I decided to start my Wiki editing venture with AfD input. Mainspace edits will start happening shortly. This person meets WP:GNG as I feel he passes "Significant coverage". I based my decision on the Times of India article, which makes mention of his win at the European Music Awards, as well as his Rolling Stones India article which is solely about him. --Kevin19781 (talk) 17:37, 19 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep - He is a notable Personality and deserves to be on main space compared to a lot of other people whom have a wiki. Most Afghan celebrities have a wiki with no sourcing how? I get Ramiz Kings deletion but his friends and etc they all don’t have real sourcing even — Preceding unsigned comment added by Positiveilluminati (talk • contribs)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting again. We are not much closer to having a consensus than at the point of the previous relist, I personally view the last couple of keep !votes as policy-deficient.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Daniel (talk) 02:19, 18 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per analysis by Bonadea. None of the music works are notable and there is no indication of playing significant role in Gully Boy (such as critical commentary from reliable sources). I doubt being on Youtube's Top music videos of the week can be counted as being on country's national music chart. A valid claim to notability could be winning an MTV Europe Award. Barring any compelling evidence that it qualifies as a "major music award," I'm leaning to delete. -- Ab207 (talk) 17:10, 18 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
It will be helpful to hear which National Music Chart of India do you consider to be reliable?. Note you have reworded YouTube Music Chart as Youtube's Top music videos of the week (which I believe to be the trending section / different). As noted previously, the song "Firse Machayenge" is the 7th most streamed song in YouTube India 2020. One should keep an open mind and note that the statistics (streams and followers) of this artist is at least 3 times than that of any other artists of this genre (category: Indian Rappers). Kalundkaar (talk) 20:52, 18 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Kalundkaar: I don't quite understand the question "which National Music Chart of India do you consider to be reliable", since you have already mentioned WP:MUSICBIO several times, and that list of criteria is extremely clear about which specific charts "count" towards notability. YouTube Music Chart is not one of those, and "7th most streamed song" is also not a notability criterion. --bonadea contributions talk 21:49, 18 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Kalundkaar, a list of national music charts is found at WP:CHART, and it does not make any mention of Youtube lists. I don't think crude numbers like streams and followers have much bearing on the notability. -- Ab207 (talk) 09:20, 19 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
This was in reference to the discussion on creation of 2 other pages in this category: Indian Rappers. I wrongly assumed that participants have done their research and are aware of discussions on related pages. I do not get the point of votes like: Person X: "Delete as per analysis of Person Y". If person X have not taken the pain to do their own analysis, it is not necessary to make a comment/ vote just for the sake of it. Kalundkaar (talk) 15:10, 25 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Stronger arguments will obviously find more support than the weaker ones. Besides, I have substantiated my rationale rather than just making a WP:PERX vote. And no, we are not interested in drawing comparision with other rappers (see WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS). Statistics are good measure of popularity but not necesssarily notability. -- Ab207 (talk) 13:29, 26 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
In the interest of not bludgeoning the debate, this comment should hopefully be my last contributions to this discussion. The reference was not to other pages but on the creation discussion. I, wrongly, assumed you like to substantiate your rationale based others' research but is more WP:ILIKEIT for you. I understand why you missed understanding this subtle point. Thank you. Kalundkaar (talk) 14:49, 28 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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