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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Barkeep49 (talk) 01:54, 21 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

FFACE

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FFACE (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)
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PRODed with the rationale 'Promotional article about talent management agency in Kolkata refbombed with unreliable sources.' DePRODed so here we are. Mccapra (talk) 10:44, 11 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions. Mccapra (talk) 10:44, 11 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Fashion-related deletion discussions. Mccapra (talk) 10:44, 11 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of India-related deletion discussions. Mccapra (talk) 10:44, 11 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Over 20 references entered from all reliable sources such as The Times of India, Republic TV, The Telegraph (Kolkata), Network18 Group, The Indian Express, India Today and many more. Unsure what is not reliable here? Ravishingrama (talk) 12:29, 11 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment yes lots of references added but where is the in-depth discussion of the agency and its work? I see a lot of PR and not much else. Mccapra (talk) 15:18, 11 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      • Comment Since your update I have further added more notable work by the agency including 3 more references to support the work. If you think the article should be written in more depth, please feel free to put a Multiple issues template suggesting to add further citations, or re-written encouraging others to contribute. The article definitely passes WP:GNG based on the coverages received. Ravishingrama (talk) 03:55, 12 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
        • Comment It’s not that the article needs more sources or that it needs to describe the agency in more depth. What it needs is sources that describe the subject in depth - that aren’t just photos, PR and passing mentions. Of the sources you’ve provided, which three do you think provide the most in-depth discussion of the subject? Mccapra (talk) 05:00, 12 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
          • Comment Thank you for your comments. There are multiple articles I have used as references which talks about the subject in depth. Non exhaustive articles are available online. As requested, providing a list of couple of references/articles below which talks in depth about the agency or agency's activity. Note A few notable articles are in vernacular (Bengali) as the agency is from Kolkata, West Bengal - India. This satisfies WP:NONENG
  1. http://www.millenniumpost.in/features/fface-calendar-2019-launched-at-the-park-335221?infinitescroll=1 - Millennium Post
  2. https://bengali.indianexpress.com/entertainment/beauty-has-no-shape-says-neil-roy-while-launching-fface-anokhi-101115/# - Indian Express Bengali
  3. https://www.business-standard.com/article/pti-stories/city-model-hunt-finalists-to-contend-in-global-fashion-show-115022000423_1.html - Business Standard
  4. https://epaper.telegraphindia.com/imageview_271659_16837432_4_79_24-05-2019_12_i_1_sf.html - The Telegraph Kolkata
  5. https://bengali.news18.com/news/entertainment/tollywood-movies-fface-introduces-addatimes-fame-us-a-fface-reality-series-213891.html - Network 18 News Bengali
  6. https://www.business-standard.com/article/pti-stories/city-youth-sails-into-global-fashion-icon-show-115032100729_1.html - Business Standard by Press Trust of India
  7. https://ebela.in/entertainment/night-guard-irfan-will-be-featured-in-fface-model-hunt-reality-web-series-dgtl-1.862454 - ABP Ebela by Anandabazar Patrika
Do let me know if you need more sources? There are plenty more I can provide. Ravishingrama (talk) 07:55, 12 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Thanks. The sources you’ve set out here are all interviews and PR. They are not the reliable independent sourcing we need. Anyway I’ve said enough now in this discussion so won’t make any further comments and leave it to other editors. All the best Mccapra (talk) 08:07, 12 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Yeah totally, it must just be that the nominator doesn't understand the Bengali language, because it's not Chrome and other browsers don't translate pages now. Whatever. Your comment makes it pretty obvious though that you didn't check the references to see if they were actually reliable before you posted them though. Since they are in English. Not surprising. Ref bombing and personal attacks seem to be par for the course with AfDs about Indian companies for whatever reason. --Adamant1 (talk) 09:13, 13 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete There is nothing notable about this company. All the references are garbage PR, press releases, brief mentions, or not even about the company. It should also be deleted because the creator of the article, who is obviously paid, moved the article back into the main space after it was drafted because they didn't want it to go through the proper review process for paid articles. Considering that and the lack of notability, I see zero reason for it to exist. The person should have just gone through the proper procedure, that would have probably helped with notability, so this AfD wasn't needed in the first place. --Adamant1 (talk) 09:12, 13 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment A nominator not knowing a foreign language is understandable and being sarcastic about the creator who is editing in Wiki English by saying, "your comment makes it pretty obvious though that you didn't check the references to see if they were actually reliable before you posted them though. Since they are in English. Not surprising.", and "Ref bombing and personal attacks seem to be par for the course with AfDs about Indian companies for whatever reason" is blatantly offensive and personal attack by itself.
Moved back. It needs to stay in article space until this is closed. ~ GB fan 14:38, 13 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep I took over an hour to go through these articles mentioned, and a bit more of digging around, I found it's worth keeping. With my ability to read and understand Bengali and Hindi as a language, the brand has significant and noteworthy media coverage and just not mere passing comments. I also found their social media handles on Instagram and Facebook. Both the handles are verified with a blue tick and the latter having over 1.1 million followers. I also noted a photo album of media coverage on their Facebook page Media Album which has significant amount of media coverage which definitely passes WP:GNG Few of the biggest national press has covered stories of this brand. To conclude, the article is worth a keep, but having said that, few parts of the article can be encouraged to be written from a neutral point of view. Iamthebest21212 (talk) 05:15, 17 May 2020 (UTC) — Iamthebest21212 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]
Ok so after an hour of research you want us to understand that the company has blue tick accounts on Facebook and Instagram? Social media accounts and photo albums are not acceptable as sources on Wikipedia. That’s the whole problem with this article. There are plenty of mentions of the agency, but not actual coverage. There are plenty of pictures, but not in-depth, independent discussion of it. That’s what we need. Mccapra (talk) 05:54, 17 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Comment No, that is not what I meant. A blue tick in Facebook and Instagram was an add on comment to say it has definite notability. Having said that, the images you are talking about for which I provided a link on my earlier comment is excerpts from notable media who does not have an E-paper link. There are plenty of those, however the creator has not used any of those on the article. To counter your point, there are plenty of articles I found on Google which covers in depth discussion of the brand or the brand's events from 2014. There are consistent news articles for last 6 years. For example Indian Express Bengali, Times Of India Bengali and Tollykata talks in greater detail about the brand and its activity. This definitely passes WP:SUSTAINED . Finally I want to put forward the policies of WP:NEXIST and WP:NPOSSIBLE where editors are strongly encouraged to find sources of the subject in question and consider the possibility of existent sources if none can be found by a search. Thus my views on the article remains unchanged. Iamthebest21212 (talk) 06:18, 18 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete I examined all of the references in the article and those posted here. The criteria for establishing notability for companies/organizations as per WP:NCORP is for multiple sources (at least two) of significant coverage with in-depth information *on the company* and (this bit is important!) containing "Independent Content". "Independent content", in order to count towards establishing notability, must include original and independent opinion, analysis, investigation, and fact checking that are clearly attributable to a source unaffiliated to the subject. With that in mind, here's my analysis of the references posted at this AfD which are largely representative (and slightly better) than the ones in the article
  1. This from Millennium Post has no attributed journalist but leaving that aside, is company PR for the "launch" of their 2019 calendar. The text is not original in that parts are exactly replicated in other articles such as one in the Daily Hunt (link blacklisted so can't post here), WhatsNewLife and (oddly enough .. or not) some text is also repeated for the launch of their 2020 calendar in Best Bengal. Fails WP:ORGIND.
  2. This from Indian Express Bengali is another announcement. There is no in-depth information on the company (which is mentioned in passing) and it is entirely based on the interview with the founder. Fails WP:CORPDEPTH and WP:ORGIND.
  3. This from Business Standard is based yet again on a company announcement and quotations from the founder, has only mentions-in-passing with no in-depth information on the compnay and also fails WP:CORPDEPTH and WP:ORGIND.
  4. This from The Telegraph Kolkata has no attributed journalist but leaving that aside, is insignificant PR to "announce" their fifth anniversary and this "article" appears in the celeb-gossip section complete with "celebs" who attended the party. Fails WP:CORPDEPTH and WP:ORGIND.
  5. This from Network 18 News Bengali is an article on a new reality TV web show. Yet more PR. It contains zero information on the company. Fails WP:ORGIND and WP:CORPDEPTH.
  6. This next from Business Standard has no attributed journalist but leaving that aside, is about a contestants in the company's annual search for new talent. It contains zero information on the company itself and it is PR complete with the usual photos and quotes. Fails WP:CORPDEPTH and WP:ORGIND.
  7. This from ABP Ebela is also PR and is about one of the contestants on the "Model Hunt" reality show. It contains zero information on the company, fails WP:CORPDEPTH and WP:ORGIND.
There is no doubt that this company exists and generates a lot of "noise" in order to promote their calendar and TV shows but it is fairly easy to see that this is a result of company PR. I am unable to locate any references that meet the criteria, existing references fail NCORP, topic fails GNG/WP:NCORP. HighKing++ 21:02, 20 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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