Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Frank Wragge

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep‎. (non-admin closure) NotAGenious (talk) 11:22, 17 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Frank Wragge

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This one sentence biography article has zero references to establish notability. After searching, unable to find in depth reliable sources. Article was created on 20 August 2006. JoeNMLC (talk) 13:32, 19 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Withdrawn by nominator - article now has sufficient content to establish notability. Thank you Cielquiparle for article improvements. JoeNMLC (talk) 04:31, 13 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This discussion can't be closed based on a nominator's withdrawal since there are votes to Delete this article. You'll have to wait for a regular closure. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 05:49, 13 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Football, and England. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 13:34, 19 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: I can't find anything for this person, several meteorologists with a similar name pop up Oaktree b (talk) 13:55, 19 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 14:12, 19 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - ENFA confirms this player had a 15 year career playing for 'Whitmore, Wolverhampton Wanderers, Oakengates Town, Bristol Rovers, Stafford Rangers, Torquay Utd, Walsall, Madeley Miners Welfare, OD Murphy Sports (Wellington)'. What attempt has been made to search for offline sources, given this player was active in the 1920s and 1930s? Giant Snowman 16:16, 19 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Also going with keep, I feel there might be better WP:OFFLINESOURCES, I see him named in two seasons for Wolves, [1] and [2], mentioned in [3] Some mention on a war memorial, but not sure that's related or not. Dates seemed wrong for it. Govvy (talk) 20:55, 19 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Fails GNG. A newspapers.com search only turned up namedrops. Dougal18 (talk) 12:33, 20 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Question @Dougal18: Which newspapers? Old match reports? Govvy (talk) 14:28, 20 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comment @Govvy: He is in several newspapers but it's mostly transfers and injuries. His wife Mabel died in 1938 but there was no sigcov of Frank in the articles. Dougal18 (talk) 10:46, 21 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Dougal18: okay, however, considering when he played, I am simply staying with my keep vote for now, as I am assuming good faith that there are offline sources. Regards. Govvy (talk) 11:39, 21 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: (weak) I think these newspapers.com results [4] shows there is probably offline local coverage. The sources are very weak, but they seem inline with what consensus says is acceptable. There is also a Frank "Wragg" who is not notable. // Timothy :: talk 17:44, 24 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:38, 26 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Polyamorph (talk) 06:56, 3 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - Per above. Thanks, Das osmnezz (talk) 20:24, 5 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep USA sources such as newspapers.com isn't really useful for 100-year old footballers; it simply doesn't have much historic UK coverage. But it's easy to find sources in British newspapers, such as he played for Torquay United F.C. in 1928 according to this from the Sports Argus, having gone there in 1927 from Stafford Rangers F.C. according to the Staffordshire Sentinel here. Later in 1928 he was injured while playing for Walsall F.C according to the Argus here. There's a good 1931 piece in the Birmingham Gazette when he went to Oakengates Athletic F.C. here, which also notes he played for Wolves, Bristol Rovers F.C., and the other teams listed above. There's dozens more. This looks to be a BEFORE failure, User:JoeNMLC - not so much because there wasn't a search, but nominating players for top teams 100 years ago in England, shouldn't be done without a comprehensive search of the British Newspaper Archive. Nfitz (talk) 23:41, 5 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Your links just lead to a registration page. Searching for "Frank Wragge" gave 13 matches of which 4 aren't relevant and three are about his wife's death. Fortunately the sources are available on newspapers.com. The Sentinel is one sentence of routine transfer coverage. The Argus is routine injury coverage. Finally the "good piece" from the Gazette is routine transfer coverage where his previous clubs are cited. Dougal18 (talk) 11:52, 6 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
There's nothing wrong with transfer coverage. ROUTINE is nothing to do with that. Links are fine, unless you haven't logged into BNA. BNA access is available for free, if you apply through Wikipedia Library. I don't think those that haven't gotten this should be nominating AFDs in this area. Nfitz (talk) 02:00, 8 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Also, I'm finding more articles if you simply search for ... wragge wolves. Such as this 1923 article in the London Daily News. - https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/viewer/bl/0003212/19231204/205/0011 about his injury, while he was playing for Bristol. Might be even more hits for ... wragge rovers. Nfitz (talk) 02:14, 8 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Final relisting.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 09:20, 10 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - seems to have played several seasons for top teams, suspect sources exist in local offline archives. JMWt (talk) 09:36, 10 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per WP:BASIC in light of sources now added to the article for this historical sports biography about a player born 125 years ago. IMO, it was a fair AfD nomination though, as there were zero sources cited at the time of nomination (and for a couple weeks afterwards). Cielquiparle (talk) 11:03, 13 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, per expansion work by Cielquiparle BeanieFan11 (talk) 15:47, 13 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.