- North America (Americas) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (restore|AfD)
- Incorrect interpretation of AfD debate by the Administrator. He gave the "delete" votes more weight than the "keep". The result should have been no consensus. A narrow majority (4 votes), is NOT consensus. The article was nominated due to the fact that it had few references, however it was a 1 day old article, under expansion at the time. However, more reliable, verifiable references were added in order to address this concern, expressed by the nominator. Another reason for the nomination was POV Forking. POV Fork article states that occurs when one editor decides to create a separate article about the same topic as a result of a disagreement, to represent a certain POV, or to avoid NPOV in a certain article. This article was not created for any of those reasons (e.g. there was no current debate/edit war on North America), but to provide a link to Template:Regions of the world, where the link for North America directed to the article about the continent (See Template:Continents of the world.
There are several geographical models about the Americas, and every of the other regions in the models have their own article:
- Linguistically:
- Continentally:
- Regionally:
Middle America (Americas), Northern America, Central America and the Caribbean, all of these regions, in fact, are part of the North American continent. Some of the reasons expressed to delete the article were that it "duplicated the name of an existing article and duplicated the information", then, should we delete the articles about all those regions part of the North American continent and merge them into North America?. North America as a region, and North America as a continent (that includes Central America and the Caribbean) are two different concepts, and as expressed above, every region of the continent has their own article. In the case of South America, there's no similar problem as in North America. SA meaning the continent or the region, occupies the same territory in both geographical conceptions. AlexCovarrubias ( Let's talk! ) 17:05, 9 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment Aside from the facts that some of the sources listed do not support the content (e.g., Encarta; see AfD comments) and that this article did arise out of disagreement/inability to incorporate content where it belongs (North America), it remains a fork. As well (if my counting is correct ... someone please double-check), the result was this: 24 users voted to delete, 1 to redirect to North America, 11 to merge with NA, 19 to keep (a few of which had provisos to merge/delete if not improved) totalling 55 (excluding comments); it's also clear that 'redirect' and 'merge' do not mean 'keep'. Even with the vote-stacking/cross-posting throughout to 'keep' and the possibly confusing, repetitive comments/lists of a single user, a consensus ((24+1+11)/55 = 65%) has indicated that this article should be deleted, redirected, or its contents merged. Corticopia 06:30, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment: Actually, there are 23 votes to "Delete" and 19 to "Keep", that's a difference of just 4, and a majority is not the same as a consensus You're counting one vote expressed as "Merge/Delete" as a direct "Delete". It is obvious that his first choice was to "Merge". AlexCovarrubias ( Let's talk! ) 18:42, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment I will leave it to someone else (as requested) to validate and interpret the tally; I apologise for any miscounts, but that doesn't fundamentally change the outcome ... particularly if you argue that the margin is 'slim' to begin with, ignore other integral flaws, or believe that 'merging' content from an article also illogically coincides with 'keeping' it. Corticopia 18:45, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment, I'm not saying "merge" equals "keep". Also "merge" does not equal "delete". Otherway, then why one votes "merge" if they can choose "delete"? The point here is that the opinions were so divided between keeps, deletes and merges. No consensus was reached. And consensus is not "majority", since "AfD is not a votation/poll". AlexCovarrubias ( Let's talk! )
- Comment I believe the point is that you're trying to push a point which even resonates through the article you created, and use the inequities of polling to draw out the topic. You say that AfD is not a votation (noted) but then assert that the fewer 'keep' votes (many of which were just that and canvassed) were unnecessarily deprecated. False -- yours sounds like a confirmation bias to me. Actually, you waffle and make little sense: a consensus clearly did not support retaining the article. One votes to merge content into North America (with no/few attempts beforehand to do so or with content already there, and where it should be), after which there is no need for its eponymous fork -- and that is the original problem with the article. Ditto for redirecting. This may not apply to other regional articles (effectively subarticles) which have unique points and reliable sources to round out content. This fork confuses the very topic it may be intended to clarify. Someone else can continue to argue with you, but I won't. And that's it. Corticopia 19:03, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment. I recommend you to read WP:POVFORK, there is the CLEAR definition of what it is. This article was not a POV Fork and you know it. When I said that the Admin did not give proper weight to the "keep" votes, I meant it was like he ignored them, because there wasn't an overwhelming majority of deletes, in order to say that "a consensus was reached". 23 delete vs 19 keeps? That's a narrow majority, not even close to a "consensus". Lastly, unfortunately, the article was unfairly deleted and the PEOPLE cannot see the sources, so you have the "advantage" to tag them as "no reliable". All of the references clearly defined the North American region. AlexCovarrubias ( Let's talk! ) 19:33, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Endorse I'm not an administrator -- as neither of the two editors above are -- so I'm unsure of the utility of said comments to endorse, etc.; however, FWIW (and as the nominator of this AfD), I fully endorse the decision to delete this article and the closing admin was not in error (see tallies). Despite incremental editions and obfuscation during the AfD, the article did not change substantially from being a fork of North America, and a consensus of editors still asserted to either delete redirect, or merge it upon the AfD's conclusion. There remains no reason (if not already) why this information cannot be merged/expanded upon in North America. As well, note that many of the 'keep' votes are the result of canvassing of 'keep' votes externally by at least one participating editor (see AfD page; also brought to the attention of admins) and the author/challenger of the AfD was rebuked by at least two users (one an admin, from what I can tell) for related excessive cross-posting. Othrewise, I defer to my prior Afd comments. Corticopia 17:51, 9 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment Everyone can contribute here not just admins so if you want to keep the delete please put this at the beginning of your statement instead of the word comment, SqueakBox 17:57, 9 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Endorse my deletion - some of the keep votes were simply "Keep ~~~~". Others simply attempted to discredit the nominator. None of them presented any evidence in the form of reliable sources in order to meet the concerns of the nominator. The article in itself was also unsourced and appeared to be original research, and was a POV fork. --Coredesat 18:23, 9 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment: Unsourced? Now, for sure I can tell you didn't read the article. How can it be original research, there are plenty of sources indicating the existence of North America as a region/subcontinent. In the geographic model that considers America a single continent, it is divided in North, Central, Caribbean and South. Unsourced? There were links to a site of the Government of Canada, Duke University, American University, The North American Institute, Encarta, etc. POV fork? NO way, (Read its definition at WP:POVFORK). The creation of the article was not motivated as a result of a disagreement about North America, but to provide a link to Template:Regions of the world (different from Template:Continents of the world), that already had a link to North America (but as a continent). As already said above, there was no debate/edit war in the article North America. AlexCovarrubias ( Let's talk! ) 18:42, 9 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment Those sources do not work - sources that just say "oh, North America is only such-and-such region" don't work out under WP:RS. Random links that say only that and nothing else are trivial sources, even if they're departments of universities. They do not establish or indicate that there is any sort of consensus that there is a region of the continent called North America. Barring those, yes, the article is unsourced. --Coredesat 20:01, 9 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment: The references provided clearly indicated that North America is also a region, containing Canada, the US and Mexico. If you failed to see that, then I'd say you're clearly biased about the subject, and that you probably were not the indicate administrator to close the debate. There were also 2 books about the subject, both about North America as a region, again, clearly defining it as a region. More importantly, darely denying such a region exist, without even try to check if it really doesn't exist (in case you continue to say the references provided "don't say that"), is not just arrogant, but risky. AlexCovarrubias ( Let's talk! ) 22:04, 9 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment I'm afraid you can't say that, because you are not able to see the article. As I already said, it was a 1 day old article, and however, more sources were provided to specifically address this "reason" for the nomination. AlexCovarrubias ( Let's talk! ) 18:07, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment Exactly I agree with you DGG, there are different geographic models used in the Americas. However, it seems that many people just denied to believe that the North American region exist, even with all the sources provided:
- Linguistically:
- Continentally:
- Regionally:
- Again, (before somebody tries to make this "argument"), South America, defined as a continent (two continents) or as a region (single American continent), occupies the same territory in both definitions. As you can see, all of the other regions of the Americas have their own article. Central America, Middle America and Northern America, are also PART OF NORTH AMERICA AS A CONTINENT. Should we erase this articles and merge them into North America? AlexCovarrubias ( Let's talk! ) 17:43, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment Actually, strangely, there does appear to be an article about Northern South America (with apparently the intent to create other articles for each of the cardinal directions), though I make no qualifications of its authority or content. Corticopia 18:41, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Endorse Consensus is not vote counting. HighInBC(Need help? Ask me) 16:40, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment True: I merely pointed out the vote tally for our collective benefit because the challengers are using the crutch that the 'delete' votes (et al.) were given undue weight while, all the same, the 'keep' votes (many of which were minimal) were inordinately being deprecated. At its face (i.e., based on mere count), a consensus does support the nomination and the closing admin acted correctly based on other factors too. Corticopia 16:50, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment: True, and a narrow majority of only 4 votes to delete the article, is NOT a consensus. The opinions were very divided. Almost the same amount of keep than delete votes. So, there was no consensus about what to do. AlexCovarrubias ( Let's talk! ) 17:38, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment This is dubious, confusing illogic -- there was not almost the same amount of votes. You first say that the 'keep' votes were not given due weight. You then say there was no consensus, even though almost two thirds opted to delete, merge content into North America, or redirect there (the last two of which clearly do not mean 'keep'). Even if the delete/keep votes were taken alone (24:19), that yields 56% for the former option (which is generally statistically significant). And, after all, this isn't just about the quantity but quality of comments, and many of the 'keep' comments were essentially user signatures which were mostly due to canvassing to 'keep' throughout. Despite repetitive listing to maximize position here and there (where a link to Americas (terminology) would suffice), the article remained a fork upon its deletion. Corticopia 17:51, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment: Actually, there are 23 votes to delete and 19 to keep. You're counting one vote expressed as "Merge/Delete" as a "Delete". AlexCovarrubias ( Let's talk! ) 18:40, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment Again, I will leave it to someone else (as requested) to validate and interpret the tally; I apologise for any miscounts, but that doesn't fundamentally change the outcome ... particularly if you argue that the margin is 'slim' to begin with, ignore other integral flaws, or believe that 'merging' content from an article also illogically coincides with 'keeping' it. Corticopia 18:45, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment I didn't take a stand in the AfD, though I commented extensively. Barring sock/meat/whatever puppets and canvassed voters, there was a fairly strong consensus to delete. And deleters did make stronger arguments than keepers. WilyD 17:31, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Restore: Oh really?, stronger arguments according to who?. The discussion wasn't finished yet, people were still voting, and it seems very convenient to me that they stopped it right when there was a slightly majority of votes for deletion. Supaman89 20:12, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment According to most, actually. And many of those that were '(still) voting' to keep the article were explicitly canvassed to 'keep' it (e.g., in the Spanish Wikipedia) by you. Corticopia 14:03, 11 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Not according to anyone - it's just a basic truth. With such a difference in article quality, and honest person can see that the delete arguments relied on facts, and were in accord with policy, while the keeps were essentially WP:ILIKEIT. For what it's worth, people were never voting, AfD is not a vote, and it seems like it's the singular fact that brings us here is the inability of some to grasp that. WilyD 22:24, 11 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- I believe that the basic difference is that the North American continent includes Central America, and the concept of North America as a region specifically refers to Canada, the United States of America, and Mexico (and sometimes a few islands.) As the page stood before it was deleted, if I remember correctly, there was a map, several definitions of the region of North America, and a brief description of NAFTA. Confiteordeo 21:28, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment (general) That's just about it: the fork fixated on and sensationalized a single point of view about this nebulous region while minimizing others (like NA often being used to refer just to Canada and the U.S. as opposed to Latin America) and didn't contain a single reliable source defining "North America as a 'region'" as stated, compared to a plethora of reputable ones that indicate it is a continent or component of America. Besides: it contained nothing that couldn't be -- if not already -- in North America or elsewhere. Anyhow, of course the article couldn't benefit from various points of view because it wasn't discussed beforehand nor adequately sourced -- the article was created/flourished by one or two editors that decided to boldly go where the rest of us needn't, and who decided to not only fork content, but spoon-feed us a unique interpretation through straw man arguments. And all articles in Wikipedia are unfinished, but sometimes abortions early in the first trimester are necessary. Enough from me. Corticopia 00:12, 11 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Endorse. Many of the "keep" votes were either unexplained, simply stated things like "this is a good article," or agreed that the article was about the concept of North America as a region. Statements like that didn't address the concerns of the nominator, nor did they explain why the information presented in the deleted article needed to stand alone, rather than being included in one of the many articles we have on the different divisions of the Americas, such as North_America#Usage_of_the_term, Americas (terminology), and Americas#Usage. Confiteordeo 21:16, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Endorse, the quality of the closing notwithstanding, it was a bad article. And as someone above said, "consensus is not vote counting." --Golbez 21:28, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Endorse original deletion.--cj | talk 02:41, 11 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Restore I did not vote in a baseless fashion, nor did others voting in the AfD and I believe that the closing admin, who acknowledged that he was discounting many of the views expressed, over-reached. I am becoming more concerned that a cultural bias is at play here. En WP does not need to be about only things seen from a North American perspective. The notion that there is significant difference between a geographic continent and sphere of economic, political and cultural influence may not be obvious to the closing admin but he should be aware of the limitations on his point of view.Edivorce 04:03, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment 'Many of the views expressed' to 'keep' (and still outstripped by views to 'delete', 'merge' content, or 'redirect') were merely assertions (if that) and/or the direct result of canvassing by said editors to 'keep' -- one reaps what one sows. There's room aplenty for numerous viewpoints in Wikipedia, but the 'keepers' (as someone put it) have demonstrated either an unwillingness or inability to incorporate or enhance reliably sourced content and notions through reasoned discourse in the AfD and (in this case) where it belongs: in North America and related articles. And, unfortunately,accommodating various points of view does not allow for the bold forking of relevant content to achieve that. Corticopia 04:35, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- as you indented this comment beneath my own it appears that you are making a reference to my vote. A review of the AfD will show that this is a mis-characterization. Edivorce 05:23, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment To what are you referring? Mine are general comments that are intended to point out the vagaries or inaccuracies of your comments, so who is mischaracterizing? Corticopia 13:27, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- I did not merely state a position in the AfD. I backed it with arguements. My arguemnt addressed addressed WP:RS. You and more importantly, the closing admin, ignored this. Then the closing admin characterizes all keep arguements as baseless. Even one keep arguement with a basis is enough to stop the admin from imposing his will. I see this all the time. An editor states A. B and C in support of a position. Any one is sufficient to maintain the point. An admin says A and B are not good arguments. So you have no basis. Ignoring that the argument he failed to address is itself sufficient. An admin can close for delete lacking a clear consensus if there is no - that is not any at all- argument for reliable sources. He can not just impose his view to close because he thinks the close arguments are "better." Remember it is "delete" that has the burden of establishing a consensus to remove the article.Edivorce 17:32, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Arguably, a consensus of two-thirds already exists to delete, merge content, or redirect this article. In addition, your argument has not satisfactorily addressed WP:RS -- since these weren't provided in the article -- nor has it dealt with other points in/throughout the nomination (e.g., misrepresentation of source matter, the notion that this fork wasn't created out of a disagreement or discussion elsewhere). Simply put, your arguments and (especially) those of most of the 'keepers' are simply less compelling or rather willful. Relatedly, you also seem to glaze over the explicit canvassing of many of the 'keep' votes (many of which were just signatures), which cannot so easily usurp reasoned counterpoints. Corticopia 19:15, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment: Need the history restored to see the original article before I make a decision here. - Penwhale | Blast the Penwhale 06:08, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Restore: Originally, I was going to endorse the deletion, but only because I didn't understand what this was about, and it seems to me that many people that voted for delete didn't get it. Outside of the US, there is a "one continent" model (we consider the Americas to be only one continent). In this model, America is still divided into smaller regions (or subcontinents), which are not the same as the regions in the two continent model (in this subdivision, Central America is not part of North America). The Encarta source clearly treats America this way, so the article was not unsourced, as has been stated by the administrator who deleted this.
- Junto a Centroamérica, las Antillas y Sudamérica, Norteamérica constituye el continente americano.
- Next to Central America, The Antilles and South America, North America comprises the American Continent
and
- Norte America, subcontinente que abarca Canadá, los Estados Unidos de América y parte del territorio de México.
- North America, subcontinent that covers Canada, the United States of America, and part of the Mexican Territorry.
- --Solid Reign 15:23, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment While one cannot deny other continental models, the above is a very selective, narrow interpretation of the source ... which is part of the problem. Let's clarify, shall we: the Spanish Encarta article clearly indicates that North America is a subcontinent(e) including Canada, the US, and part of Mexico and also includes Greenland, St. P. & M., and (in Spanish) Bermuda; these entities -- together with Central America, the Antilles (West Indies), and South America -- comprise the American continent(e). It does not specifically indicate NA is a 'region' (see below) and elaborates (roughly) that "North America is sometimes defined to include Central America and the West Indies, which are treated separately in this encyclopedia." Throughout, NA is just a subcontinent(e). Conversely, many English and other sources unambiguously indicate that CA and WI are included in NA, and no one has yet successfully argued why the content in this article cannot be dealt with in the NA article.
- The Spanish Encarta article for Central America goes on to say that it IS a region of the American continent(e) and is "defined by geographers as part of North America." The same is essentially said in English for both NA and CA, except it substitutes 'subcontinent(e)' with 'continent' and 'America(n continent(e))' with 'Western Hemisphere.' Also, in English Encarta, all of Mexico and Bermuda are included in NA, and (in both) CA geologically begins at the Isthmus of Tehuantepec. There is nothing new in this information, which harks of the nomination and is dealt with (or should be) in North America (see also South America), and it still doesn't justify the fork. Corticopia 16:32, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- First of all, READ WP:POVFORK, it clearly indicates what is and what is not a POV fork. The creation of this article was not a fork, so please, I invite every reader to take a look in to the POV fork policy. Repeating it was a "fork" won't make it a fork. Secondly, just because a valid geographical model is not the primarly taught in your country, it doesn't make it less valid nor "selective". Thirdly and most importantly, Encarta was not the only source provided. Two books and several other sources (some of them by a Canadian and an American University) clearly indicate and make North America as a region, their object of study. AlexCovarrubias ( Let's talk! ) 19:50, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment Continual 'sophistry' aside, the sources you provided are substandard, some of which do not support your assertion or are ambiguous: see AfD comments. You also maintain a confirmation bias despite being unwilling or unable to discuss and incorporate the topic matter regarding this nebulous region (despite protestations otherwise and minimizing other perspectives) in North America (so you can take your own advice and read WP:POVFORK); you also seem to be in denial of explicit canvassing/cross-posting that you partook in to support this fork, which many (if not most) of the commentators in the AfD also mantained was a fork. And, I'm sorry, but denial is in another continent. That's it. Corticopia 23:27, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
 Undelete, as I've said before it is not about the continent, it's about the region ! Cavenbatalk to me 23:03, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment- No one is denying that that was the subject of the deleted article. Since this is not AfD, would you please comment on the interpretation of the votes and the debate, or at least address the concerns of the nominator? Confiteordeo 00:01, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Undelete, simply because 65% is not consensus. The decision to delete was done hastily without allowing the parties to reach a consensus amongst themselves. This issue was treated as a simple voting system in which the "will of the majority" prevailed (i.e. democracy, something wikipedia is not), and not as a mechanism through which a consensus would be reached through dialogue. If 19 users voted against the deletion, the admin should have payed more attention to their concerns and should have encouraged both parties to debate. That 65% majority was far from a consensus and far from rough consensus (2/3). --theDúnadan 03:32, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment Actually, it wasn't merely a 'votation': the tallies merely further solidified a consensus to delete, merge, or redirect this forking of content. Said commentators are unwilling or unable to acccept or integrate that many of the 19 'keep' comments were simply that and not argued and were explicitly canvassed by the main supporters of the article. Despite this imbalance and said tactics, the debate was quite extensive (and repetitive), and a perusal of the AfD reveals that -- the 'keep' commentators were given all the attention they were due. No one has satisfactorily addressed -- or just avoids -- why this redundant information cannot reside or be dealt with in North America. Moreover, I'm not sure what system of mathematics you're using, but (strictly by the numbers) 65% is a hair's length diff from 66.6...% (or 2 over 3) and definitely more than the 60% which is the minimum required for consensus in Wp. And if one continues to glaze over these arguments (et al.), I'm getting off of this bus right now ... Corticopia 10:26, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Note: The nominator of this deletion review has canvassed (link) the talk pages of those who voted to keep the article on its AfD. —bbatsell ¿? ✍ 23:00, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Note: It is not canvassing since it is only an invitation to express their opinions again. However, Corticopia, the user that nominated the article for deletion in the first place, did the same check here (Link) before I did. That's why I also started inviting the editors to express their opinions again, since he only invited those who voted "delete".
- What I found really weird/surprising, is that you noticed my "canvassing" while not noting that Corticopia, in fact, did it first. However, I don't think any of us are doing such a thing, since we're inviting again those who already voted with a neutral message. AlexCovarrubias ( Let's talk! ) 23:05, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Again, eh? And incorrect. There's a difference between your actions and mine: I have invited a variety of editors, administrators, and (earlier) commentators at other articles (e.g., Talk:Canada, Geography wikiproject) -- not just those who opted to 'delete' -- to weigh in. Also, your message is hardly neutral since you clearly bolded text and pointedly stated the decision to be "wrong". Imitation is flattery, but you seem to have a penchant for pointing the finger when you need to look in the mirror first. Corticopia 23:10, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Even with all your verbose talking... inviting people that you know will "vote" in a certain way, is considered canvassing. However, you're being hypocritical, since you started "inviting" people to "weight in", those who voted "delete" and perhaps some others. By just checking your contribution list and the AfD anybody can see it. AlexCovarrubias ( Let's talk! ) 23:22, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- I've no response for continuous sophistry, but do apologise to others for any real or imagined breach of protocol. Corticopia 23:24, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Endorse deletion. Trying to resurrect this issue by discussing the merits of the deleted articles is NOT the point of deletion review. As the closing admin pointed out a large number of those wishing to keep the article did not cite any reasons for keeping it, valid or otherwise. The nominator of this review, also the creator of the deleted article, seems to have taken the issue extremely personally, and the whole issue has escalated into what feels like a personal dispute between him and the nominator of the deletion discussion. The closing admin did the right thing in realizing that consensus was reached to delete the article - please let the issue die in peace and don't relist this one. Arkyan 23:13, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment and request - I don't know if I am out of line here, but may I humbly ask Corticopia and AlexCovarrubias to cease disrupting the discussion? Your points have been made again and again, and the back-and-forth between you is doing nothing to add to the discussion at hand. If you have a fundamental difference of opinion you want to hash out, please take it to your talk pages. The heated debate bewteen you two was overwhelming on the original AfD and it is beginning to overwhelm this discussion as well. Arkyan 23:32, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Endorse deletion Couldn't agree more with the closing admin.--Húsönd 23:18, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Endorse deletion. I don't see anything here to make me think the closure was unsound, or to make me reconsider my original opinion (I almost said "vote", but AFD is not considered a majority rules plebiscite). 23skidoo 23:40, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Endorse deletion The rationale for deletion was sound. older ≠ wiser 01:48, 14 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Restore. I still can't see why the article couldn't be left alone and stand by itself. After all, we have the article on United States, which talks about its history, population, culture, demographics, economy, and also, its GEOGRAPHY, but, hey...! There's also another article called Geography of the United States, which... wow! Talks about the Geography of the United States. Redundant...? NO! ...It's just something called expanding information, just as the deleted article intended to contribute to Wikipedia.
- Comment. I don't necessarily agree with the admin per se, in that keep votes should be disregarded (at least thats how i saw it worded). Keep OR Deletion OR Merge votes that do not offer something to say (or, if you agreed with someone, that would, I suppose, be acceptable) should be disregarded. After looking through more of the content... I still think it should be merged (but I'm not really sure if I can suggest that in a deletion log), only because I think that this information SHOULD go somewhere (probably the North America article). Just weighing in here. Disinclination 03:18, 14 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Endorse I commented extensively in the afd in favor of deleting, and I would just like to add that in my humble opinion, POV FORK concerns have been denied but not clearly addressed by proponents of this article. Likewise, the contention that one North America article could cover all of this information was not disputed with any clear reasoning. Certainly no one tried that option. Much of the afd debate consisted of voting, which we know is not grounds for either keeping or deleting. Therefore, the deletion was in accordance with consensus. Feeeshboy 04:18, 14 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment Even if the deletion was in accordance with consensus, and is a final irreversible decision, no steps whatsoever have been taken by either party to comply with the numerous requests to merge the information that was therein contained into North America. --theDúnadan 15:12, 14 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Endorse - There is a certain amoutn of discertion left up to the closing administrator. I agree with their decision and agree that any information in the article could probably be contained somewhere else. -- Chrislk02 (Chris Kreider) 16:56, 14 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
|
